I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

For topics related to SuperMarioBrosX.org. Suggest anything that you would like to see on the site here.
User avatar
HeroLinik
Cyan Yoshi Egg
Cyan Yoshi Egg
Posts: 3444
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:28 pm
Current Project: TCGA Remake
Chat Username: Look below my avatar
Contact:

I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby HeroLinik » Sat May 28, 2016 4:34 am

OK guys, please hear me out here. After reading this topic, which mentioned something about the state of the Level Judges, I thought about expanding that topic into its own.

I'm not actively trying to become a Level Judge per se (I might give it a shot this summer), but I've noticed how inactive the Level Judges are getting. Given that their task is to review other people's levels and send them to their appropriate category based on its design, it may seem like a mundane job. It technically is, because you need to have time and motivation to do it, but I've been noticing how some people have not reviewed in, like, a month, and they still haven't been demoted from position for being inactive. There are also some levels that are just about to fall off page 1 in the levels (like this one) that have still not gotten a review, yet there are more recent levels posted and they have gotten a review. With the amount of Level Judges we have around, shouldn't they have been reviewed by now? It's unfair to the people that posted the levels that only wanted to get feedback, only to not get any.

I do understand that regular users can post level reviews and get them approved by the judges, but it seems like a Level Judge review has more "weight" than a standard user review because the Level Judges were picked for their knowledge of what a good level is. Also, a recurring problem with regular user reviews (but this is not always the case, and is definitely not with the ones that have been judges before, like me) is that they focus too much on the cons of the level rather than the pros. That isn't a review, that's a list of things wrong with the level.

You all probably know I've been a Level Judge many times before, and I know what it is like to be one. I don't really want the group gone entirely, because the mods will be tasked more with sweeping the levels forum for no screenshots/D-links and so on. But something seriously needs to be done about the state of the dead Level Judges so far.
I support: show
Lol, you got trolled. Move along, if you please.
YouTube channel

Moderator of the r/Pokemon Discord server since 2019.

User avatar
Aero
Palom
Palom
Posts: 4621
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:51 pm
Flair: Pirate economy
Chat Username: aero

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Aero » Sat May 28, 2016 6:15 am

Not to rehash the other thread down to the letter, but the solution to your pros vs cons issue is solved by treating level topics like normal discussion topics so what's wrong and right about the level can be discussed naturally. Other than that though all I have to say is that LJs are a stale meme that should have died with the original forum as they are inactive and commit to arbitrary review rubrics under the mask of "professionalism."

Kuribo
Rex
Rex
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:36 am

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Kuribo » Sat May 28, 2016 7:19 am

I think we can trust the mods to moderate one extra section. The current system is obviously not effective at getting levels sorted, for whatever reason. It also stifles discussion, and like AeroMatter said, it would be nice if levels could be a place for actual discussion instead of waiting for a level judge to come in and give the final word on the matter.

Mable
Peach
Peach
Posts: 5835
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:23 am
Current Project: Account soon to be deleted
Chat Username: Account soon to be d
Contact:

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Mable » Sat May 28, 2016 7:30 am

The level judges aren't the one to blame so much. I can understand why some people don't feel like reviewing, levels ,bc the creator of these levels doesn't listen to the critic, advice and pros and cons pointout.
There are some noteable people who only have levels in the trash can over and over again bc they don't improve and therefore never land in another category.

Also why would a "level judge" review weight more actually? The thing that normal users point out to much cons isn't really a statement i accept. It's better to point out as many rather then only pointing a bunch of pros over and over and only like 3 cons.

Just bc they have a pink name doesn't mean they weight more.
If we would entirely remove them they would be regular users also again. Would they then suddenly start only pointing out cons?

Also some text in the post sounds like make level judge and i save u. Imo at least. And then when you become one, you eventually also get bored by it and life takes over aka you don't have anymore time for this. Besides someone only wants "perfect english" for level judges and stuff

PixelPest
Link
Link
Posts: 7116
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:38 pm
Flair: Tamer of Boom Booms
Current Project: Boom Boom Evolution
Chat Username: PixelPest
Contact:

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby PixelPest » Sat May 28, 2016 7:45 am

Kuribo wrote:I think we can trust the mods to moderate one extra section. The current system is obviously not effective at getting levels sorted, for whatever reason. It also stifles discussion, and like AeroMatter said, it would be nice if levels could be a place for actual discussion instead of waiting for a level judge to come in and give the final word on the matter.
I strongly disagree. I really like the levels system the way it is. The idea of making the rating of a level based on discussion is a poor idea imo. The average Forumer cares too much about graphics and not enough about gameplay and other important things. And also, the GMs would be moderating three more forums if we scrapped the Level Judges.

Btw, the reason I haven't been doing much reviewing is due to a trip to MusicFest Nationals Canada to perform, so I missed a ton of school work that I've finally been able to catch up on.

I also reviewed two levels yesterday and moved all of the SVLC levels. My plan is at least 5 reviews per week, especially since my summer break is soon it'll be much easier to achieve

User avatar
Valtteri
Larry Koopa
Larry Koopa
Posts: 2153
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:16 pm

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Valtteri » Sat May 28, 2016 7:58 am

If we look at the reality of the situation, the level judge team is a group of teenagers who don't get paid for their work and do it solely for fun and to help our forum. The only way we could have a 100% effective judge team with endless motivation would be to get a bunch of people who are ready and want to dedicate a little of their free time to reviewing regularly and that kind of devotion is rare. I think it's great that we have a team with enough motivation to even get a couple of levels reviewed a week.

Why does a level judge's review weigh more than that of a regular user's? That's simply something the community has agreed on. We pick people who we think can somewhat tell a good level from an average one and then they get to decide what category new custom levels belong to.
Image

Mable
Peach
Peach
Posts: 5835
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:23 am
Current Project: Account soon to be deleted
Chat Username: Account soon to be d
Contact:

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Mable » Sat May 28, 2016 8:02 am

PixelPest wrote: I also reviewed two levels yesterday and moved all of the SVLC levels.
And you moved ness-wednesday into the wrong category. He has 3 pretty goods and 2 average so it would only make sense and after a thread Joey made how contest levels are handled that it goes into the pretty good.
Last edited by Mable on Sat May 28, 2016 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Aristo
Larry Koopa
Larry Koopa
Posts: 2359
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 7:01 am
Flair: they/them/don't refer to me
Chat Username: Aristo

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Aristo » Sat May 28, 2016 8:20 am

Image

there is really only one flaw i see in the level judge system:
a level judge shouldnt be a temporary position until the person gets tired of being a level judge or w/e and retires, but rather something like a checkmark given to every user that has proven that theyre capable of giving good reviews, that way we would get the levels reviewed faster and everyone who is qualified to give their opinion can actually give their opinion and it matters

Image
ImageImageImageImageImageImage

PixelPest
Link
Link
Posts: 7116
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:38 pm
Flair: Tamer of Boom Booms
Current Project: Boom Boom Evolution
Chat Username: PixelPest
Contact:

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby PixelPest » Sat May 28, 2016 8:25 am

Tinkerbell wrote:
PixelPest wrote: I also reviewed two levels yesterday and moved all of the SVLC levels.
And you moved ness-wednesday into the wrong category. He has 3 pretty goods and 2 average so it would only make sense and after a thread Joey made how contest levels are handled that it goes into the pretty good.
Sorry. I think I actually calculated a Pretty Good score but must have hit Average on my phone instead. I'll fix that
Marina wrote:
That's actually a cool idea. I'd agree to do that

User avatar
Aero
Palom
Palom
Posts: 4621
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:51 pm
Flair: Pirate economy
Chat Username: aero

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Aero » Sat May 28, 2016 8:37 am

Valtteri wrote:I think it's great that we have a team with enough motivation to even get a couple of levels reviewed a week.
Low expectations is part of the problem. You're patting yourself on the back for having a notoriously trivial and inefficient group, when there's better ways of doing things. This applies to such more than the Level Judges too.
Valtteri wrote:That's simply something the community has agreed on.
Literally when?

PixelPest
Link
Link
Posts: 7116
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:38 pm
Flair: Tamer of Boom Booms
Current Project: Boom Boom Evolution
Chat Username: PixelPest
Contact:

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby PixelPest » Sat May 28, 2016 8:44 am

AeroMatter wrote:
Valtteri wrote:I think it's great that we have a team with enough motivation to even get a couple of levels reviewed a week.
Low expectations is part of the problem. You're patting yourself on the back for having a notoriously trivial and inefficient group, when there's better ways of doing things.
Although I see where you're coming from, I have to disagree. I don't think there's really any possibility to have other expectations with the way the system works; people have lives and if they can't review things they can't. I really don't think it's an issue. Who cares if everyone in the group is consistently reviewing levels? Why is it such an issue if they don't?

User avatar
Aero
Palom
Palom
Posts: 4621
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:51 pm
Flair: Pirate economy
Chat Username: aero

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Aero » Sat May 28, 2016 8:52 am

Look, nobody on this forum is important enough for "people have lives" to be an excuse for anything otherwise you wouldn't be here. It's an excuse for laziness, because there's plenty of time for LJs to do everything else on here minus judging levels. You guys are just not needed, and stand in the way of people who want reviews so they can improve their levels or just simply want feedback at all. I said in the other thread that level topics only get a few replies and then die because of the system we have now, and it's just a stupid way of running things.

User avatar
Valtteri
Larry Koopa
Larry Koopa
Posts: 2153
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:16 pm

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Valtteri » Sat May 28, 2016 8:56 am

Marina wrote:Image
You don't have to point out that you don't "really" care when you still want to post your opinions.
AeroMatter wrote:
Valtteri wrote:That's simply something the community has agreed on.
Literally when?
It's generally accepted that level judges judge levels similarly to how it's accepted that moderators moderate forums.
Image

User avatar
Aero
Palom
Palom
Posts: 4621
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:51 pm
Flair: Pirate economy
Chat Username: aero

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Aero » Sat May 28, 2016 9:03 am

No it isn't.

Run a poll without locking it in three seconds and nobody will support the current system. Stop speaking for the community when you're speaking for yourself.

Mable
Peach
Peach
Posts: 5835
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:23 am
Current Project: Account soon to be deleted
Chat Username: Account soon to be d
Contact:

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Mable » Sat May 28, 2016 9:06 am

Aeromatter should be level judge.

In the end the community people here expect people to be 24/7 online here. Yeah you should go outside more and hang out with real people

Kuribo
Rex
Rex
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:36 am

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Kuribo » Sat May 28, 2016 9:09 am

PixelPest wrote:
Kuribo wrote:I think we can trust the mods to moderate one extra section. The current system is obviously not effective at getting levels sorted, for whatever reason. It also stifles discussion, and like AeroMatter said, it would be nice if levels could be a place for actual discussion instead of waiting for a level judge to come in and give the final word on the matter.
I strongly disagree. I really like the levels system the way it is. The idea of making the rating of a level based on discussion is a poor idea imo. The average Forumer cares too much about graphics and not enough about gameplay and other important things. And also, the GMs would be moderating three more forums if we scrapped the Level Judges.

Btw, the reason I haven't been doing much reviewing is due to a trip to MusicFest Nationals Canada to perform, so I missed a ton of school work that I've finally been able to catch up on.

I also reviewed two levels yesterday and moved all of the SVLC levels. My plan is at least 5 reviews per week, especially since my summer break is soon it'll be much easier to achieve
I've seen official level judges who are just as misguided about how to judge a level as any normal user. It doesn't matter that much if average forumers value different qualities than level judges; in fact, it would at least do a better job of reflecting the popular opinion of a level, which as far as I'm concerned is the whole point of sorting them into different categories. Whose opinion does it reflect right now? I don't know, because I'm an average user who doesn't keep track of who has what forum rank. So the current level sorting system isn't of much help to me.

To answer people asking why a level judge's opinion weighs more than a regular user's: because they have their own rank called "level judge," complete with a unique name color, which implicitly denotes an elite position of authority. It's not something people made up, it's built into the rank. They're called "level judges." Of course their judgements of levels carry more weight.

User avatar
Valtteri
Larry Koopa
Larry Koopa
Posts: 2153
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:16 pm

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Valtteri » Sat May 28, 2016 9:14 am

AeroMatter wrote:Run a poll without locking it in three seconds
Because we do that all the time??? What are you even talking about? There's no need for a poll. There's no outcry against the current system - which we didn't invent by the way, it's been in place ever since the first SMBX forum - and there's no need to change it either.
Image

User avatar
Aero
Palom
Palom
Posts: 4621
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:51 pm
Flair: Pirate economy
Chat Username: aero

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Aero » Sat May 28, 2016 9:31 am

"There's no outcry" he says in a thread on the problem LJs have always had and gotten onto by community members for.

If you're not going to listen to anyone, just run a poll for shits and giggles then and look at how many people are dandy with how the system works.

User avatar
Valtteri
Larry Koopa
Larry Koopa
Posts: 2153
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:16 pm

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Valtteri » Sat May 28, 2016 10:02 am

Don't you think it's a little odd that you're so heavily involved in this argument when you never even post levels let alone review them?
Image

User avatar
Aero
Palom
Palom
Posts: 4621
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:51 pm
Flair: Pirate economy
Chat Username: aero

Re: I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

Postby Aero » Sat May 28, 2016 10:14 am

Don't you think it's a little odd that you're dodging instead of giving a valid response? I don't need to post or review levels to know of a better way to run the system. You've posted levels and reviews and clearly that hasn't helped your take on the subject.


Return to “SuperMarioBrosX.org”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests