A legitimate request towards the staff

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby StrikeForcer » Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:41 pm

PixelPest wrote:And what? Conforming is a bad thing? Btw, the reason I haven't had time to review levels lately is due to getting my Driver's Licence, which is something that is highly time consuming. Furthermore, I do most of my browsing of these forums on my cell phone, so no, I can't always review levels. When I can't though, I make sure I do everything I can to keep the Levels, Episodes, and Projects forums clean. And why do I need to back up my posts anyway? Read any of these topics and my points are backed up by most of your posts. The main difference we share here is that I contribute to this community in a positive manner when I can and most of what you do is just complain and propose crazy ideas that are fully blown out of proportion. I side with Joey and Valtteri since they're some of the only people responding to these threads that have a good conscience. Any of my negativity that may be arising from this stems from my frustration in you
*drinks bleach* Conforming is only bad when you are part of the problem when you do conform to those kinds of people (who currently are holding the community back by not addressing actual issues this community faces). And if you are going to post an argument, there is a reason why you have to back up your posts - Because you do not want to be seen as a shill to people that are a problem and that you can have credibility. Also everything else you said in that post is like, irrelevant to the discussion at hand and completely false (Joey and Valterri are censoring discussion because of the pretense that we shouldnt care about what happens internally because is none of our business when that is not transperent of a response at all).
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby PixelPest » Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:43 pm

StrikeForcer wrote:
PixelPest wrote:And what? Conforming is a bad thing? Btw, the reason I haven't had time to review levels lately is due to getting my Driver's Licence, which is something that is highly time consuming. Furthermore, I do most of my browsing of these forums on my cell phone, so no, I can't always review levels. When I can't though, I make sure I do everything I can to keep the Levels, Episodes, and Projects forums clean. And why do I need to back up my posts anyway? Read any of these topics and my points are backed up by most of your posts. The main difference we share here is that I contribute to this community in a positive manner when I can and most of what you do is just complain and propose crazy ideas that are fully blown out of proportion. I side with Joey and Valtteri since they're some of the only people responding to these threads that have a good conscience. Any of my negativity that may be arising from this stems from my frustration in you
*drinks bleach* Conforming is only bad when you are part of the problem when you do. And if you are going to post an argument, there is a reason why you have to back up your posts - Because you do not want to be seen as a shill to people that are a problem and that you can have credibility. Also everything else you said in that post is like, irrelevant to the discussion at hand and completely false.
What exactly is false? Everything I said was in response to the previous posts made, so how is that irrelevant at all?

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby TLtimelord » Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:44 pm

PixelPest wrote:And what? Conforming is a bad thing? Btw, the reason I haven't had time to review levels lately is due to getting my Driver's Licence, which is something that is highly time consuming. Furthermore, I do most of my browsing of these forums on my cell phone, so no, I can't always review levels. When I can't though, I make sure I do everything I can to keep the Levels, Episodes, and Projects forums clean. And why do I need to back up my posts anyway? Read any of these topics and my points are backed up by most of your posts. The main difference we share here is that I contribute to this community in a positive manner when I can and most of what you do is just complain and propose crazy ideas that are fully blown out of proportion. I side with Joey and Valtteri since they're some of the only people responding to these threads that have a good conscience. Any of my negativity that may be arising from this stems from my frustration in you
Holy indignant suckup, can you cool it down on the self praise? AeroMatter contributes plenty by bringing colorful discussions to the general forum. I may not agree with him on everything but at least he knows how to keep a civil discussion and might I add, not straight up point out how much better he is than everyone else.

What AeroMatter brings up is a genuine thing everyone should be worried about. Our staff isn't as active as it should be, and that is our concern because we're the ones who are being moderated. And Nien brings up how everyone finds it rather obnoxious when we're shut out from having any say because "it's none of our concern" is thrown at us instead of actual reasons and actual arguments. We want things explained to us, because we're not just going to follow someone blindly. We're not stupid.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby PixelPest » Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:50 pm

TNTtimelord wrote:
PixelPest wrote:And what? Conforming is a bad thing? Btw, the reason I haven't had time to review levels lately is due to getting my Driver's Licence, which is something that is highly time consuming. Furthermore, I do most of my browsing of these forums on my cell phone, so no, I can't always review levels. When I can't though, I make sure I do everything I can to keep the Levels, Episodes, and Projects forums clean. And why do I need to back up my posts anyway? Read any of these topics and my points are backed up by most of your posts. The main difference we share here is that I contribute to this community in a positive manner when I can and most of what you do is just complain and propose crazy ideas that are fully blown out of proportion. I side with Joey and Valtteri since they're some of the only people responding to these threads that have a good conscience. Any of my negativity that may be arising from this stems from my frustration in you
Holy indignant suckup, can you cool it down on the self praise? AeroMatter contributes plenty by bringing colorful discussions to the general forum. I may not agree with him on everything but at least he knows how to keep a civil discussion and might I add, not straight up point out how much better he is than everyone else.

What AeroMatter brings up is a genuine thing everyone should be worried about. Our staff isn't as active as it should be, and that is our concern because we're the ones who are being moderated. And Nien brings up how everyone finds it rather obnoxious when we're shut out from having any say because "it's none of our concern" is thrown at us instead of actual reasons and actual arguments. We want things explained to us, because we're not just going to follow someone blindly. We're not stupid.
How is defending myself against AeroMatter being an "indignant suckup"? Just because I stated reasons for my absence in reviewing and then compared my contributions here to this community versus AeroMatter's, umm...? I never even mentioned everyone else. The biggest issue seem to be having here is making others (like me) appear to have said things they didn't. I'm sorry if I'm not being 100% civil, but you guys just have me totally fired up (and not in a good way)

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Aero » Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:55 pm

Joey, when you get home tomorrow I'd like to hear your thoughts on my post and perhaps the idea of a Global Announcement to put some of these issues to rest. Also I'd like to ask that you ignore the above posts because they went off topic a bit and deviate from the point of the thread and my post.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Ignoritus » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:09 pm

Listen, you guys don't understand.

You shouldn't care about this. Stop caring about it.

Bam, issue resolved. Praise Big Brother.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Valtteri » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:15 pm

There are people who don't do anything in the mod group. There are also people who do things in the mod group. These people who do things in the mod group do all the work that needs to be done.

There is no issue.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Nien » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:17 pm

Valtteri wrote:There are people who don't do anything in the mod group. There are also people who do things in the mod group. These people who do things in the mod group do all the work that needs to be done.

There is no issue.
That's not the problem at hand, the problem is the dismissive responses the staff frequently gives.

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Aero » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:21 pm

Valtteri wrote:There are people who don't do anything in the mod group. There are also people who do things in the mod group. These people who do things in the mod group do all the work that needs to be done.

There is no issue.
What are you talking about?
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Valtteri » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:04 am

That is what your issue goes down to, though. You complain that the mods/level judges aren't doing anything. You're not happy with our response that is "it doesn't concern you" which it doesn't but still. What I just posted is an alternate response.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby qig » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:29 am

Valtteri wrote:There are people who don't do anything in the mod group. There are also people who do things in the mod group. These people who do things in the mod group do all the work that needs to be done.

There is no issue.
then why is it that on multiple occasions there is spam posts that go undeleted for hours on end if there's no issue?
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Aero » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:11 am

Valtteri wrote:That is what your issue goes down to, though. You complain that the mods/level judges aren't doing anything. You're not happy with our response that is "it doesn't concern you" which it doesn't but still. What I just posted is an alternate response.
It's actually this post is what the issue comes down to. Your dismissive attitude to issues being pointed out with the staff's poor performance or lack thereof. You don't just get to pick and choose what I want looked into. It's mostly you who is pushing this nonchalant dismissal by making decisions alone against outside opinions from not only regular users, but other Level Judges and staff. The Level Judges that are actually around to hold an opinion on how the Levels forum runs, do not all agree with you. The other staff that are online more than one minute per week, also do not all agree with you either. There is no consensus among the admins either on other issues as well. Is it not of their concern, or is that just something you say to avoid taking the time to write a normal reply as if you respected the person you were talking to. Hassling people in PMs is not acceptable behavior of an admin, nor is secretly talking about matters and waiting for threads to die off. Members, both staff and not, shouldn't have to worry about their thread or themselves facing consequences unless they break forum rules - next to none in this forum do, and their discussions are pushed off to continue elsewhere anyway while this forum dies off. If you haven't noticed, the forums that are the most moderated here are the worst ones. This forum has topics locked left and right, and if it isn't the thread dies with no action taken despite popularity. The Levels forum gets no attention because most of the Level Judges are gone or just don't do their jobs, and when topics are moved they die quickly after. I've said this all before, and you and the other staff refuse to defend it. I said this on the Discord, but with how slimy this whole thing is I'm waiting for the day when someone makes a thread going through all the problems of the site and after going at it that person is banned and as soon as people call bullshit you guys would immediately say "It's none of your concern who we ban." Joey said he wants staff to interact normally, yet it's set up like a private club to collude on how NOT to help these situations and plot when to go after certain users.

You act like you're this step above everyone else when you guys had Quill, who spammed the IRC with others and on more than one occasion, as admin. You also nearly had Blueoak - who I am quite fine with now, but this still happened - as a Global Moderator who helped delete the forum's global announcements, and the FF&R forum's topics. I bet if you guys were to ever get around to shaking up the staff team to consist of competent members, you wouldn't consider that there's users that have been phished here that haven't changed their password since and their passwords are logged for the moment when one of them happens to earn a promotion. You guys don't know what you're doing and look down your noses whenever the incompetence of the management of this forum is brought up. If anyone else were to treat members with as much contempt as the staff do, they would be warned and banned for breaking the first rule. It is beyond me how someone who's job is next to obsolete in most cases can talk down to anyone especially with a track record of mismanagement like that of the staff. I could understand making a wrong move here and there, but when people start getting banned for a perceived attitude and regular users are given the cold shoulder then that is a completely different situation. While I was still mod, I treated issues impartially despite my negative views of a user (Danny comes to mind back when he kept getting in trouble.) Now I hear that's not the case, and naturally things went downhill when the rest of the staff started adhering to the decisions of you and Joey. Ever since I've resigned a lot of inhibitions have been lifted, sure, but I still propose ideas to help the forum just as I did in the staff forum and some of which I still echo now. Since my resignation though, there has been a total shift in how I interact with staff. I'm talked to differently and negatively as if my contributions to this board didn't happen, and as if I'm acting maliciously and a problem to be dealt with. I mean I'm talked to as if I don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes, and I don't know what I'm talking about. I can understand why a lot of the veteran users left if their experiences are anywhere close to mine.

Almost everything that is run by the staff here ends up at a dead end, dies out quickly, or just gets delayed for months and years. How's the community YouTube channel going? How about the community Facebook page? Is the wiki coming along well? Oh, they're all dead. Now how's the SMBX videos thread doing? Imagine that, decentralizing video uploads and incentivizing production ended up creating a bunch of free advertising for this place and got video output ramped up instead of being left to the hands of absent and careless staff. Perhaps the users do a better job and get more done when they're able to create as they please, and do so freely instead of being restrained by the usual SMBX forum formula that hasn't worked since the first one. When you guys are shooting ideas down, you're shooting yourselves in the foot. I can point to examples of the staff's failures, and the users' successes yet still proposals of turning over the Levels forum to be run by users like every other forum here is brushed off and of course dismissed despite objection from a majority including staff. I mean you don't even seem to read threads anymore since I saw you just come in here and go off about how the staff are inactive and that's the end of it, just as Joey said Nein and I have a problem with Global Moderators not locking enough threads. The irony is that staff are not needed, yet people are kept around who do not do anything useful and for the stuff that does need to change it's completely ignored as if it's not an issue and therefor the mods are doing everything that needs to get done. The remaining inefficiencies and problems that are not taken care of are the only thing that justify staff positions.

TL;DR Check yourself.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby underFlo » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:39 am

I think the reason the userbase makes more stuff is simply because of their quantity. There's only a handful of stuff members and most of them hardly use SMBX (I think Valt's the only one that really does?). In comparison to that there's a bunch of users that use SMBX.

However, moderating is a different story. Uploading videos or other content creation is by no means a measure for how good they are at moderating forums. While letting users handle the level forums is an idea I'm not generally opposed to, the thing is that the Levels forum is inherently different from any other forum: The level forum's sole purpose is sharing your levels. The only comparable forum with much activity is the Art forum, and that uses the approach of making threads per user. That's not really relevant to the discussion at hand, but if anything that's how the Levels forum should be handled if it needs to be changed drastically.

Also, I'm not really one to join in discussions like this but I will say that OP has some good points. Yeah, the staff usually acts like normal users, but in meta threads the only ones engaging in discussion are ZM, Pseudo and Joey at times (also from what I recall Mivi used to do that but he's been inactive lately so I'm not sure). I think shooting down threads like that where the OP has good intentions is usually counterproductive and detracts from the staff feeling like regular users.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Aero » Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:24 am

I don't disagree with what you said. You really just explained why]/i] letting members have control works, and why narrowing the field to certain staff doesn't. I just pointed it out is all. Intuitively it just makes sense that way because production isn't restricted to the time a few people take to manage stuff while they're online when everyone can do it on their own and at their own pace as they do in the unmanaged forums like I said.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Shadow Yoshi » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:00 pm

Forgive me for temporarily ignoring the last few posts,
Nien wrote:
Valtteri wrote:There are people who don't do anything in the mod group. There are also people who do things in the mod group. These people who do things in the mod group do all the work that needs to be done.

There is no issue.
That's not the problem at hand, the problem is the dismissive responses the staff frequently gives.
You gave us a few examples in your post which I want to respond to, but before I do that I would like everyone else to find and post links to any other examples of this (from any staff member) they'd like to see addressed. That way, I can respond to all of them and connect what I've been saying to what's been happening.

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Aero » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:52 pm

Joey wrote:You gave us a few examples in your post which I want to respond to, but before I do that I would like everyone else to find and post links to any other examples of this (from any staff member) they'd like to see addressed. That way, I can respond to all of them and connect what I've been saying to what's been happening.
I dug around for the most relevant examples I could find. In each of these cases, the post was meant to shut down discussion, deflect, dismiss, or authority was used to talk down with.

http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 52#p223509
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 96#p219840
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 96#p219844
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 00#p228734
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 20#p225859
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 20#p225838
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 20#p222875
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 00#p222822
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 20#p221162
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 80#p220998
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 80#p223962
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 20#p215924
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 72#p168472
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 69#p167069
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 83#p147664
http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... 86#p178886

Don't forget that there's examples of threads being ignored where I can't just link to staff making a non-action since I can't just single out anyone fairly for that. I also tried to not interpret anything too much beyond what is written, so there shouldn't be anything here where something was said but the apparent tone is misunderstood. Also since you asked for staff members, I excluded a particular Level Judge that does almost nothing but perpetuate this and is responsible for a lot of these kinds of posts. I don't have access to the PMs other people received, so others may have more examples to offer at their discretion.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Valtteri » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:49 pm

qig wrote:then why is it that on multiple occasions there is spam posts that go undeleted for hours on end if there's no issue?
You're not seriously expecting every spam topic to be dealt with immediately. What harm does it do to have them wait for a few hours?
AeroMatter wrote:You also nearly had Blueoak - who I am quite fine with now, but this still happened - as a Global Moderator who helped delete the forum's global announcements, and the FF&R forum's topics.
What kind of accusation is this? "You almost promoted Blueoak" well we didn't, so what does it matter??? And we're not psychics, AeroMatter. Nobody could foresee him betraying us.
AeroMatter wrote:I mean I'm talked to as if I don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes
That is the assumption. No one is supposed to relay information from the staff forum to you and if they do we do not know about it.
AeroMatter wrote:The irony is that staff are not needed, yet people are kept around who do not do anything useful and for the stuff that does need to change it's completely ignored as if it's not an issue and therefor the mods are doing everything that needs to get done. The remaining inefficiencies and problems that are not taken care of are the only thing that justify staff positions.
The only "issue" that is being pointed out by people other than you is the "inactive mods/judges" one though. You're the only one pushing for the deletion of the levels forum.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby qig » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:52 pm

You're not seriously expecting every spam topic to be dealt with immediately. What harm does it do to have them wait for a few hours?
i'm expecting them to be deleted within a reasonable timeframe... which they usually aren't.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Aero » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:00 pm

Valtteri wrote:What kind of accusation is this? "You almost promoted Blueoak" well we didn't, so what does it matter??? And we're not psychics, AeroMatter. Nobody could foresee him betraying us.
That's the point, you guys aren't this infallible group that knows best 100% of the time but act like it any way.
Valtteri wrote:That is the assumption. No one is supposed to relay information from the staff forum to you and if they do we do not know about it.
I'm not being relayed information. I've been a moderator and I know how things work in the staff forum. You guys are just predictable in all honesty.
Valtteri wrote:The only "issue" that is being pointed out by people other than you is the "inactive mods/judges" one though. You're the only one pushing for the deletion of the levels forum.
No it's not, and I have never pushed for that. Putting certain words in quotes isn't a complete argument unless you can show that judges and mods are active, by the way.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Shadow Yoshi » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:04 am

Thanks for the examples, AeroMatter. If anyone else has some, please post them. I am, as usual, very busy, so I'm not sure when I'll be able to make a full reply. I do want to address something from an earlier post, though:
PixelPest wrote:As Joey said, I really think that people here need to accept there places.
I understand what you're saying, but it needs to be clear that I didn't say anything about people "accepting their places" or "knowing their places". Haven't said it, never will say it. That kind of an argument implies superiority, which is exactly not what I'm trying to do here.


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