A legitimate request towards the staff

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby HeroLinik » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:20 pm

Kyo Saito wrote:This might be one-off, but what about a system where once a week every month we hold a "contest" of sorts for people to get their levels featured in the following month, instead of taking the highest rated levels? This might help to motivate people into making levels as it gives them a week's deadline, Sunday through to Saturday, to work on a level that will be judged by the Level Judges, which can potentially get featured as the level of the month, and the rest of the levels can be released publicly. This should promote motivation and creativity in budding level designers who want to see their work showcased, but it will also motivate the Level Judges and give them something to manage other than voting random levels. What are peoples' thoughts on this?
You mean like the Level of the Month system on NSMBX? That ran for quite a while (it was really popular the moment I joined) but the problem was that people were rigging the polls for the famous level designers like Chad and Kyo and leaving the rest for dust. There were some non-famous members that won it as well like Jarckius. It eventually died out but not just for that reason, but because it was too much work for the Level Judges, or so I think. We did try to bring it back with Level of the Season (I was a part of that) but that wasn't popular and only lasted for a few months before dying out completely.

If we were to introduce LotM here we would need to differentiate it from NSMBX's system to prevent these shortcomings.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Aero » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:23 pm

Too much work for the Level Judges, what? Something dying because of them? What? ???

I'm fine with whatever system that disposes of their group.

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Yoshi021 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:25 pm

Linik wrote:
Kyo Saito wrote:This might be one-off, but what about a system where once a week every month we hold a "contest" of sorts for people to get their levels featured in the following month, instead of taking the highest rated levels? This might help to motivate people into making levels as it gives them a week's deadline, Sunday through to Saturday, to work on a level that will be judged by the Level Judges, which can potentially get featured as the level of the month, and the rest of the levels can be released publicly. This should promote motivation and creativity in budding level designers who want to see their work showcased, but it will also motivate the Level Judges and give them something to manage other than voting random levels. What are peoples' thoughts on this?
You mean like the Level of the Month system on NSMBX? That ran for quite a while (it was really popular the moment I joined) but the problem was that people were rigging the polls for the famous level designers like Chad and Kyo and leaving the rest for dust. There were some non-famous members that won it as well like Jarckius. It eventually died out but not just for that reason, but because it was too much work for the Level Judges, or so I think. We did try to bring it back with Level of the Season (I was a part of that) but that wasn't popular and only lasted for a few months before dying out completely.

If we were to introduce LotM here we would need to differentiate it from NSMBX's system to prevent these shortcomings.
What if the Level Designers chose the Level of the Month.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby HeroLinik » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:30 pm

Yoshi021 wrote:What if the Level Designers chose the Level of the Month.
What do you mean by "level designers"? The guys that are designing the levels to shoot a chance for LotM, the guys with the purple usernames or something else entirely?
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Yoshi021 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:30 pm

Linik wrote:
Yoshi021 wrote:What if the Level Designers chose the Level of the Month.
What do you mean by "level designers"? The guys that are designing the levels to shoot a chance for LotM, the guys with the purple usernames or something else entirely?
The guys with the purple usernames.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby HeroLinik » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:32 pm

Yoshi021 wrote:The guys with the purple usernames.
They design the official community episodes.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Ace » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:36 pm

I don't really think being in the level designers group really means anything, since there's some good designers that just don't want to work on the community project. I wouldn't say the current level designer group is the best of the best. I don't think they should be given another role outside of working ti3.

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Kyo Saito » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:52 pm

Linik wrote:
Kyo Saito wrote:This might be one-off, but what about a system where once a week every month we hold a "contest" of sorts for people to get their levels featured in the following month, instead of taking the highest rated levels? This might help to motivate people into making levels as it gives them a week's deadline, Sunday through to Saturday, to work on a level that will be judged by the Level Judges, which can potentially get featured as the level of the month, and the rest of the levels can be released publicly. This should promote motivation and creativity in budding level designers who want to see their work showcased, but it will also motivate the Level Judges and give them something to manage other than voting random levels. What are peoples' thoughts on this?
You mean like the Level of the Month system on NSMBX? That ran for quite a while (it was really popular the moment I joined) but the problem was that people were rigging the polls for the famous level designers like Chad and Kyo and leaving the rest for dust. There were some non-famous members that won it as well like Jarckius. It eventually died out but not just for that reason, but because it was too much work for the Level Judges, or so I think. We did try to bring it back with Level of the Season (I was a part of that) but that wasn't popular and only lasted for a few months before dying out completely.

If we were to introduce LotM here we would need to differentiate it from NSMBX's system to prevent these shortcomings.
I was never around during NSMBX, I had only lurked on SMBX:R before it went down, I got through college, and then joined here.
A system I would propose for level of the month is having disclosed levels (so the authors aren't known) given to the level judges, and they determine what they want to be set forth as level of the month, that way it removes any potential rigging and any other form of "bias". Think of how the Community Contests are judged. It would work in that way, I would imagine.

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby PixelPest » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:02 pm

Kyo Saito wrote:This might be one-off, but what about a system where once a week every month we hold a "contest" of sorts for people to get their levels featured in the following month, instead of taking the highest rated levels? This might help to motivate people into making levels as it gives them a week's deadline, Sunday through to Saturday, to work on a level that will be judged by the Level Judges, which can potentially get featured as the level of the month, and the rest of the levels can be released publicly. This should promote motivation and creativity in budding level designers who want to see their work showcased, but it will also motivate the Level Judges and give them something to manage other than voting random levels. What are peoples' thoughts on this?
The issue with this imo is that the levels that deserve to be featured may not necessarily be the best scoring levels. I still like the idea of a nomination system better and then having the Level Judges choose from the nominees

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Kyo Saito » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:12 pm

PixelPest wrote:The issue with this imo is that the levels that deserve to be featured may not necessarily be the best scoring levels. I still like the idea of a nomination system better and then having the Level Judges choose from the nominees
But here's how the system would work:

At some specific period, like at the beginning of each month or whatever is set in stone, users would send their levels in anonymously to some sort of overseer, and the authors of those levels are made unaware as they are sent out to the Level Judges. The Level Judges, not knowing who the authors of each levels are, will get to vote on which level they want as featured, and they can discuss this among themselves. At the end of the scoring period, whenever that is, then the highest scoring level becomes feature. This system would work similar to how the Community Contests are run, with the judging and everything.
There is no issue with "the levels that deserve to be featured may not necessarily be the best scoring levels" because it's simple; if the level was really deserving to be featured, the Level Judges would give it a good score. The featured levels situation should be run similar to how the Community Contests work, though on a smaller scale. This definitely gives the Level Judges something to do, and it enforces that they actually play the levels. I've been skeptical of the Level Judges and have pondered if they have actually even played the levels they've scored, so this system will ensure that the levels are actually played, and the Level Judges actually have a job to do other than moderate the Levels forum. This should cut down on some of the complaints people are having around here, which is that the Level Judges don't really do much actual level judging, and it will encourage those that try to get their levels featured to do better at making levels.

The system isn't really that hard to figure out, and there really aren't that many flaws with it in the first place. It might take some time and effort to implement it, but I'm sure it will work.

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby PixelPest » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:17 pm

I don't think scoring is absolutely necessary and like the idea earlier of a nomination system from which the judges choose. I think it could also be based on multiple levels, single levels, or whatever makes that user featureable

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Kyo Saito » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:46 pm

PixelPest wrote:I don't think scoring is absolutely necessary
Then what is the purpose of "judging" in the first place? If you want a surefire way to determine a featured level, you need to send in all the levels anonymously, and have the Level Judges judge them by actually playing through the levels and giving them a score based on their preference. This will eliminate the bias of choosing famous level designers to get featured often, while the actual levels that need a chance at the spotlight are getting shoved in the back due to the user not being popular enough to get their nomination in. A blind judging system will eliminate the chance for the featured levels to be in the more popular designer's favor.
PixelPest wrote:and like the idea earlier of a nomination system from which the judges choose.
However, this has one major problem, and that was mentioned earlier:
Linik wrote:You mean like the Level of the Month system on NSMBX? That ran for quite a while (it was really popular the moment I joined) but the problem was that people were rigging the polls for the famous level designers like Chad and Kyo and leaving the rest for dust. There were some non-famous members that won it as well like Jarckius. It eventually died out but not just for that reason, but because it was too much work for the Level Judges, or so I think.
The problem is that with a nomination system, where the users nominate and the judges choose which to feature, you will have the same exact problem that Linik had just mentioned. If there's a blind judging system, you won't get this problem.
PixelPest wrote:I think it could also be based on multiple levels, single levels, or whatever makes that user featureable
I think a "Featured Level of the Month" is just that; a featured level of the month. It's not a "Featured User of the Month", so I don't think that needs to be put in place.

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Enjl » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:30 am

Bias with a blind judging system will be identical to bias without one. You have no idea how easy figuring out who made a level is. The sane way to circumvent bias is to have competent judges.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Kyo Saito » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:23 am

Enjl wrote:Bias with a blind judging system will be identical to bias without one. You have no idea how easy figuring out who made a level is. The sane way to circumvent bias is to have competent judges.
I wasn't aware it was easy to figure out who made a level, but then again, I haven't played through a lot of levels by the same user.

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby underFlo » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:03 am

I don't think such a system is the way to go since that's essentially just a contest but only the usual Top 10 participate or something.
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby PixelPest » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:19 am

It wouldn't be possible to rig the poll, since the way I saw the system would be to have a thread in which people post the name of another designer; there's no voting by the general population. And as I've mentioned a few times, yes the Level Judges would play through those people's recent levels (from the last month or whatever time period is) and then maybe share their Top 3 with the other Level Judges (the first, second, and third most deserving users of the award). Because in my opinion, the levels that get featured don't always have to be the ones that would score the highest; there's other reasons to feature a user too

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby JupiHornet » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:15 pm

Why not feature the levels that win unofficial contests, like the ones The Thwomp King hosts? Then they'll actually have a meaning :P
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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Radiance » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:31 pm

JupiHornet wrote:Why not feature the levels that win unofficial contests, like the ones The Thwomp King hosts? Then they'll actually have a meaning :P
If this will be push through, there will be a new group called "contests hosts". :lol:

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby PixelPest » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:38 pm

JupiHornet wrote:Why not feature the levels that win unofficial contests, like the ones The Thwomp King hosts? Then they'll actually have a meaning :P
I'm sorry, but I think that isn't a good idea at all. This means that everything rests on the success of those contests--the judges, the host, and the submissions. Also, not everyone enters them and sometimes the winning entries, which may have only beat 1-3 other entries to win, aren't that great anyway

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Re: A legitimate request towards the staff

Postby Bryan » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:00 am

JupiHornet wrote:Why not feature the levels that win unofficial contests, like the ones The Thwomp King hosts? Then they'll actually have a meaning :P
Unofficial contests are futile. They are too lenient. Contests should be difficult and challenging. That's what makes it competitive.

Also, it'd be nice if we could have community contests that don't involve level creation. Not everybody likes designing levels and in fact some of us find it uninteresting. Different contests will also give members the chance to express their other talents.

Also, why is it that people respond to spam threads like this one. You know its spam so why the heck respond to it? It's unnecessary to post or ask "what is this?" You know it's spam and the staff will eventually deal with it so leave it alone. Posting hungry people!


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