F*** Nintendo

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F*** Nintendo

Postby darkhog » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:59 pm

Seriously, what is wrong with them?! Instead of listening to what people are telling them, they're not only not slowing down, but even ramping up their war on fans. Another fangame (this time a pokemon hack) bites the dust and I fear SMBX might be next. I'd hate this to happen, especially since I've started development of my own episode and I seriously do hope SMBx team (both site and forum) have a backup plan when it happens, so the development can continue. And I really mean both site and forum. After all SMBX site's layout is based on supermariobrothers.org and that was taken by Nintendo already.

I still plan on buying Switch and future products but from now on will only buy it second-hand. Not gonna give the f****rs my money unless they'll come to their senses.

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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby Enjl » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:06 pm

Go on Google and google "Super Mario Bros X". On the right side it will display information on the New Super Mario Bros. franchise. Youtube videos with SMBX on it get tagged with Mario Maker or New Super Mario Bros. as played game. The 2.0 Beta 3 trailer has ads from Nintendo on it. I'm fully convinced they're using SMBX as a fan-made source of income.

Shame Prism got taken down, though. I didn't really know much about the game but the name reminds me of Necrozma so maybe it's because they want the name in the future?
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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby Wind » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:16 pm

I think Prism was pretty popular though, which is most likely why Nintendo took it down. SMBX isn't really that popular.

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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby darkhog » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:01 pm

AFAIK SMBX is the biggest competitor to Mario Maker so Nintendolts may still try to take it down in a misguided attempt to "protect their revenue". So yeah, it's best to have a backup plan even if it's unlikely that it happens. Await the best, prepare for the worst.

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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby Danny » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:33 pm

darkhog wrote:AFAIK SMBX is the biggest competitor to Mario Maker
SMWCentral would like to have a word with you.

I hope you do realize that even if by some random chance SMBX is taken down by Nintendo, the program and community itself will still persist, and since its spread itself thin over the years with various communities and social groups, getting rid of it would be like trying to get rid of a nest of termites. Besides, SMBX was already taken down once (the original forums back in 2010), and it's still alive and kicking 6 years later. There's nothing to be worried about.

On top of that, cussing out Nintendo for protecting their IP doesn't really do any justice, and buying their products second-hand will still give them a portion of that money. In Japan, their copyright protection policies are extremely strict, so you cant blame Nintendo for having to take down fangames, it's the fault of the policy. It pains me to see everyone ranting about "fuck Nintendo!" whenever a fangame gets taken down, but it's just not Nintendo's fault. I thought we were better than that.
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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby RSupertheGreat » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:41 pm

Maybe it's because the fangame(s) that the fans did is/was copyright ?

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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby mechamind » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:31 pm

Copyright would have been an issue since the earliest SMW hacks. Whatever Nintendo has been doing, they're going too slow for me to panic, but the fangame takedowns still lead me to wonder what Nintendo will attempt next.
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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby Tiger Festival » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:52 pm

Syndrilevosse wrote:
darkhog wrote:AFAIK SMBX is the biggest competitor to Mario Maker
SMWCentral would like to have a word with you.

I hope you do realize that even if by some random chance SMBX is taken down by Nintendo, the program and community itself will still persist, and since its spread itself thin over the years with various communities and social groups, getting rid of it would be like trying to get rid of a nest of termites. Besides, SMBX was already taken down once (the original forums back in 2010), and it's still alive and kicking 6 years later. There's nothing to be worried about.

On top of that, cussing out Nintendo for protecting their IP doesn't really do any justice, and buying their products second-hand will still give them a portion of that money. In Japan, their copyright protection policies are extremely strict, so you cant blame Nintendo for having to take down fangames, it's the fault of the policy. It pains me to see everyone ranting about "fuck Nintendo!" whenever a fangame gets taken down, but it's just not Nintendo's fault. I thought we were better than that.
What about other fangames/romhacks of games made by Japanese companies such as Sega,Sony,Capcom,Namco etc?
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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby Shadow Yoshi » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:59 pm

Redigit received a cease and desist from Nintendo for SMBX in April 2011, independent of and after SMBX's discontinuation (earlier that month) and also independent of and long after the closure of the original SMBX forums (August 2010). Nintendo requested the removal of SMBX from supermariobrothers.org and removal of Redigit's SMBX-related YouTube videos, as well as a transfer of the supermariobrothers.org domain name. Redigit complied with the first two requests and then, months later, with the third.

As Enjl mentioned, there are some interesting displays running alongside SMBX-related stuff. I can't say with 100% certainty that Nintendo knows about SMBX's resurgence, but I'd say it's more likely than not. Should I be presented with a takedown notice of some form, be it for a download link or for this entire site, I will do what I can to act in preservation of SMBX as a game and community.

If Nintendo's decisions solely revolve around doing what they think is best for their intellectual property, I can't really fault them. Especially if there's a law that says they have to, but I'm not sure if there is.

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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby onpon4 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:19 am

Especially if there's a law that says they have to, but I'm not sure if there is.
There is not. This is a persistent Internet myth based on a misinterpretation of what constitutes abandonment of a trademark. It also has nothing to do with copyright. The EFF posted a discussion of this when Canonical echoed the myth as a justification for demanding the removal of a website critical of Ubuntu:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/t ... r-internet

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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby darkhog » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:46 pm

Syndrilevosse wrote:
darkhog wrote:In Japan, their copyright protection policies are extremely strict, so you cant blame Nintendo for having to take down fangames
Not an excuse. SEGA is from Japan as well and they have exactly opposite stance on fangames. As for rest of the post, yes I know it will persist, but it's good to have some sort of a backup plan just in case, so the recovery can take weeks instead of months (or days instead of weeks).

//edit: At the very least, having recent backups of the site, including forum DB that can then be put on torrents if anything goes wrong, maybe even with separate, unused domain name ready if Nintendo will decide to go after the domain.

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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby Drluigi » Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:35 pm

I mean, I can totally get why they take down fangames. They do it out of fear that the spotlight will be taken away from their official games. At the same time, it's just not right IMO. The fans are showing their love for their IP's and instead of taking them down, they should be taking notes from what Sega's been doing. They literally hired fans to make a Sonic game for them, being Sonic Mania. They even started supporting ROMhacks on Steam with the MegaDrive Classics on Steam. I REALLY wish Nintendo would have better interaction with its fans like this. The only fan stuff they support are Youtubers and Competitive Smash tourneys because that's basically advertising for them. They don't even support Melee's scene which is actually bigger, only because Smash 4 is their newest game. Anyway, Nintendo needs to start looking at their fans as people and not just walking piles of cash. I will admit that they're awesome as game developers, but at the same time, they're terrible as a company.
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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby darkhog » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:55 pm

Exactly the problem I have with them, Drluigi. They're legally able to do it, sure, but it's just wrong and immoral. Not everything that is legal to do is right to do and if you think otherwise, one day life will teach you that's there is truth in what I'm saying.

//edit: Also fan work, no matter which, IS a free advertising for them. It builds hype for their franchises and if it's left to flourish, will engage their customer base to buy new game in their franchises when one comes out. As for "you can't compete with free fangames" people? Do you honestly believe that any gamer will mistakenly think a fangame is Nintendo's work, especially when most of them, even some romhacks, explicitly states they're not? Or that after playing such fangame you'll be just satisfied and not want to try the real deal?

Moreover, allowing fangames may expose new people to their franchises. You want to know how I got into Mario? Mario Forever (which at this point was fairly basic still and only had basic campaign, not all the secret worlds it has today). How I got into Pokemon? Some fangame made with RPG Maker XP. At that point of my life I've thought Pokemon was just a cartoon (it was either still original series or Johto one).

I wouldn't know Nintendo even EXISTED if not for those two (Nintendo systems were never particularly popular in Poland) until much later when I got stable internet connection and could google things up and watch YT videos.

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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby PixelPest » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:29 pm

I understand Nintendo's fear (or at least displeasure) with fan games and think that it's fully justified. In some means it's kind of paranoid imo but by no means immoral; they have all of these characters, etc. that people are ripping off and in some cases even copying completely and making money off of them. Is this wrong? Yes. Although relationships with their fanbases can be considered important, I fully understand their standpoint

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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby not rockythechao » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:43 pm

Wohlstand's Platform Game Engine is going to serve as the replacement engine for SMBX once it's complete. The PGE uses resource pack modules rather than being innately tied to a given IP, so in a potential legal situation it'd mean removing the Nintendo-related modules instead of taking down the entire project.

Should Nintendo go after SMBX before the PGE is ready (and tbh that's still quite a ways away), the most likely course of action will be to overhaul the game to use the talkhaus' ASMT IP, as there are already ASMBXT/A2XT equivalents for most of the 1.3 graphics and the series has plenty of characters that could be used in place of the 2.0 Nintendo characters. This isn't to say other IPs wouldn't be valid candidates as well, just that the ASMT series is the most likely candidate.
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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby Natsu » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:21 am

Taking down fangames, good or bad, is by any means not immoral. There are no such social rules that apply, even touch the subject of fangames, and I believe that's how it should remain. In the end, fangames are just that, fangames, and just like we all found SMBX or whatever engine you're using, we can find another one. Sure, it might not be as potent and known as SMBX (I'm well aware that popular isn't the first thing that comes to mind when talking about SMBX), but it won't be the end of any of us regardless of both the site and the engine being taken down.

I understand most of you people have attached to this fangame, and so I did, but don't forget it's just that, a fangame, and an easily replaceable at that considering the consistent progress of PGE.
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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby Cedur » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:06 am

Taking down fangames for reasons like "we fear concurrence" and "we don't manage to make games as good as these" is just extremely egoistical and oppressive, isn't it? It's also completely understandable that people have an emotional connection to a powerful, artistic engine like SMBX.
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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby Rhosty » Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:24 pm

They're also known for 'ignoring' fan suggestions and ideas, which I used to think was pretty stupid, until I found that Nintendo gets their game concepts on their own, and that the head of the company isn't really into social media. But that's still no excuse for not just excepting a few fan ideas.

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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby underFlo » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:02 pm

practicalshorty014 wrote:They're also known for 'ignoring' fan suggestions and ideas, which I used to think was pretty stupid, until I found that Nintendo gets their game concepts on their own, and that the head of the company isn't really into social media. But that's still no excuse for not just excepting a few fan ideas.
This isn't just a Nintendo thing but something pretty much every developer does for the simple reason that most fans have no idea how game design actually works and as such most of these ideas would never work out.
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Re: F*** Nintendo

Postby Rhosty » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:12 pm

Spinda wrote:
practicalshorty014 wrote:They're also known for 'ignoring' fan suggestions and ideas, which I used to think was pretty stupid, until I found that Nintendo gets their game concepts on their own, and that the head of the company isn't really into social media. But that's still no excuse for not just excepting a few fan ideas.
This isn't just a Nintendo thing but something pretty much every developer does for the simple reason that most fans have no idea how game design actually works and as such most of these ideas would never work out.
And yet another reason for fans to let Nintendo(and other developers) do their own thing. I'm pretty sure they can do these kind of things on their own, even if fans mean well to help.


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