Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

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Will the new update breath new life into SMM2?

Yes
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85%
No, it's too little, too late
2
15%
 
Total votes: 13
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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 2.0

Postby Cedur » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:23 am

So now it's going to be possible to make full episodes in MM2? if so, omfg
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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby cato » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:40 am

I would assume there will be more hot garbage/Timmy levels from the enemies/items added than levels that utilities those things. Also, the map isn't that big, may only fit 5-6 levels.

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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Eclipsed » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:23 pm

cato wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:40 am
I would assume there will be more hot garbage/Timmy levels from the enemies/items added than levels that utilities those things. Also, the map isn't that big, may only fit 5-6 levels.
No, a custom game in Mario maker, you can have 40 levels total with 8 worlds.

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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Teemster2 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:39 pm

The world maker sounded cool until I read it was limited to only 40 levels. Bummer.
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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Chanceux2 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:44 pm

YES! I'M SO EXCITED! ITS GONNA UPDATE TOMORROW :lol: IMA LOVE SMM2 3.0 but at the same time R.I.P because thats the last update

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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby SPEEDIE » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:08 am

garbage

No but seriously, the smw style doesn't even look close like smw, so disappointing.
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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Chanceux2 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:56 am

SPEEDIE wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:08 am
...the smw style doesn't even look close like smw.
Umm how?

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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby thegameseum » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:57 am

SPEEDIE wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:08 am
garbage

No but seriously, the smw style doesn't even look close like smw, so disappointing.
You're probably talking about the Koopalings' new sprites, and in my honest opinion they look fine. Wendy is a little off-model, but most of them are inspired by their current designs, but are still true to the old designs. I can see why some people might be annoyed by the fact that their sprites aren't within the color limitations of SMW, but last time I checked, this is SMM2, not SMW. Sure it's th SMW style, but as long as it fits within the (slightly inconsistent) art style of the original game, I'm fine with it. (but their wands are the wrong colors which is a little bit annoying but hey that's just me)
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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Chanceux2 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:15 pm

Chanceux2 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:56 am
SPEEDIE wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:08 am
...the smw style doesn't even look close like smw.
Umm how?
Yeah I totally see what you mean now. THE WORLDS! It doesn't let you go to your past levels

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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby SPEEDIE » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:33 pm

everything about it isn't even close. for the world map, the tiles look weird, for now, use smbx or lunar magic.
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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Chanceux2 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:44 pm

Chanceux2 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:15 pm
Chanceux2 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:56 am
SPEEDIE wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:08 am
...the smw style doesn't even look close like smw.
Umm how?
Yeah I totally see what you mean now. THE WORLDS! It doesn't let you go to your past levels
Wait no I don't see it

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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Cedur » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:45 pm

MM-SMW has different sprites, different physics, different animations, different mechanics and a differently styled HUD all the way. It's indeed not appealing.
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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Enjl » Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:00 pm

Gosh, apologies but this kind of stuff grinds my gears.
I get that different people have different tastes and all, but the wording in some of these comments is laughably petty and I think some perspective is warranted.

People: "I hate SMW because it looks like it was drawn by a 5 year old"
Nintendo: "We remade some SMW sprites so they're more in-line with the others!"
People: "Utterly disgusting and unfaithful!"

So I'm just gonna toss "doesn't even look close" out of the window on the basis of that comment obviously being birthed from salt.
As for faithfulness in general, if their primary goal was to stay faithful to the originals, they would have started by keeping the 5:4 screen resolution. They would also not have been able to keep levels flexible between the 4 main styles, which, regardless how much it may have contributed to faithfulness, would've taken away a big selling point (seeing as by with how much worry the 3d world style was initially met).

From personal experience I can definitely see the angle they come from as well - their task was to make new sprites for 30 year old games, fitting new enemy AI etc... and having tried to adjust pre-existing sprites to retrofit them into a new behaviour/sprite size myself... it's more difficult than working from scratch and is inherently less flexible and will often look worse as a result. The spritework they've done is pretty great, especially as the sprite artists on the team become more accustomed to it (I recall an interview a few years back where they detailed the troubles of creating 2D sprites in a company where 99% of the artists work in 3D). The new mechakoopa frames are adorable, the Koopaling redesigns are full of personality, Winged Boom Boom is a beautiful gremlin and the world map looks incredibly clean. Heck, if they used the old P-Balloon sprites (and often despised flight mechanics), navigating those levels would be incredibly boring-looking and tedious. That one in particular is incredibly fun to use, and the sprites portray the player's actions seamlessly.

I was initially sceptical of stuff like the SMB1 thwomps, smw bowser, etc... too for the reason of "fitting in with the theme" but... not only have all styles shown to continue to be instantly recognizable, but also in some cases even more lively than before. I'd really love to see them take a shot at remastering the old classics in these upgraded styles, with more aesthetic variety, a 16:9 resolution with levels adapted for it and the refined controls.

TLDR: Both styles are beautiful, but all styles in SMM2 have gotten upgrades to make them more flexible and modern, and I think those touches help in making the overall experience more coherent and lively.
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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Chanceux2 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:20 pm

Enjl wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:00 pm
Gosh, apologies but this kind of stuff grinds my gears.
I get that different people have different tastes and all, but the wording in some of these comments is laughably petty and I think some perspective is warranted.

People: "I hate SMW because it looks like it was drawn by a 5 year old"
Nintendo: "We remade some SMW sprites so they're more in-line with the others!"
People: "Utterly disgusting and unfaithful!"

So I'm just gonna toss "doesn't even look close" out of the window on the basis of that comment obviously being birthed from salt.
As for faithfulness in general, if their primary goal was to stay faithful to the originals, they would have started by keeping the 5:4 screen resolution. They would also not have been able to keep levels flexible between the 4 main styles, which, regardless how much it may have contributed to faithfulness, would've taken away a big selling point (seeing as by with how much worry the 3d world style was initially met).

From personal experience I can definitely see the angle they come from as well - their task was to make new sprites for 30 year old games, fitting new enemy AI etc... and having tried to adjust pre-existing sprites to retrofit them into a new behaviour/sprite size myself... it's more difficult than working from scratch and is inherently less flexible and will often look worse as a result. The spritework they've done is pretty great, especially as the sprite artists on the team become more accustomed to it (I recall an interview a few years back where they detailed the troubles of creating 2D sprites in a company where 99% of the artists work in 3D). The new mechakoopa frames are adorable, the Koopaling redesigns are full of personality, Winged Boom Boom is a beautiful gremlin and the world map looks incredibly clean. Heck, if they used the old P-Balloon sprites (and often despised flight mechanics), navigating those levels would be incredibly boring-looking and tedious. That one in particular is incredibly fun to use, and the sprites portray the player's actions seamlessly.

I was initially sceptical of stuff like the SMB1 thwomps, smw bowser, etc... too for the reason of "fitting in with the theme" but... not only have all styles shown to continue to be instantly recognizable, but also in some cases even more lively than before. I'd really love to see them take a shot at remastering the old classics in these upgraded styles, with more aesthetic variety, a 16:9 resolution with levels adapted for it and the refined controls.

TLDR: Both styles are beautiful, but all styles in SMM2 have gotten upgrades to make them more flexible and modern, and I think those touches help in making the overall experience more coherent and lively.
Yep I totally agree

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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Hammerless Penguin » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:09 am

I never really understood all the hate for the smw’s art style, let alone the fresh new smw sprites from Mario maker. I think the sprites look fine despite most not using the right color palette and looking a bit awkward, but I actually really like the new sprites for the koopalings. But one thing I can agree on is that I hate bowser’s smw sprite in Mario maker. They honestly should have used his original one and just modernize it without the clown car.
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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby h2643 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:40 am

I like the update but now I'm even more salty that SMB2 style still didn't happen. Imo it has almost no chances of happening at this point, given that the SMB2 Mushroom is a thing.

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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby thegameseum » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:25 am

I really like the SMB2 mushroom and all of the mechanics that come with it, but yeah, an SMB2 style would've been cool. It would've marked the return of so many enemies in that game that we never saw again, such as Tweeters, Cobrats, Porcupos, Trouters, Pansers, Ostros, and Pidgits to name a few. Some new bosses such as pink, red, and green Birdo, Mouser, Tryclyde, Clawgrip, Fry Guy, and Wart (well, maybe not ALL of the bosses, but you get the idea) would've also been pretty cool.
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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Teemster2 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:34 am

Chanceux2 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:15 pm
Chanceux2 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:56 am
SPEEDIE wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:08 am
...the smw style doesn't even look close like smw.
Umm how?
Yeah I totally see what you mean now. THE WORLDS! It doesn't let you go to your past levels
This is Nintendo so it's more limited in what you can do then on a PC in my oppinion. Then again smbx is limited too because redigit never finished it.

Still I prefer smbx. The update for mm2 had a bunch of power ups that was not interesting with the exception of the frog suit. Adding mecha Koop, phanto and more bosses are nice but still less npc's then what smbx has. The world map is limited in what you can do with it and only 40 levels means 5 per world if you use 8 worlds. I don't like that.

For me smbx is still better even if it's not really finished. What the dev team has done has really helped polish smbx and make it feel more complete so that's nice.

Added in 4 minutes 41 seconds:
Enjl wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:00 pm
Gosh, apologies but this kind of stuff grinds my gears.
I get that different people have different tastes and all, but the wording in some of these comments is laughably petty and I think some perspective is warranted.

People: "I hate SMW because it looks like it was drawn by a 5 year old"
Nintendo: "We remade some SMW sprites so they're more in-line with the others!"
People: "Utterly disgusting and unfaithful!"

So I'm just gonna toss "doesn't even look close" out of the window on the basis of that comment obviously being birthed from salt.
As for faithfulness in general, if their primary goal was to stay faithful to the originals, they would have started by keeping the 5:4 screen resolution. They would also not have been able to keep levels flexible between the 4 main styles, which, regardless how much it may have contributed to faithfulness, would've taken away a big selling point (seeing as by with how much worry the 3d world style was initially met).

From personal experience I can definitely see the angle they come from as well - their task was to make new sprites for 30 year old games, fitting new enemy AI etc... and having tried to adjust pre-existing sprites to retrofit them into a new behaviour/sprite size myself... it's more difficult than working from scratch and is inherently less flexible and will often look worse as a result. The spritework they've done is pretty great, especially as the sprite artists on the team become more accustomed to it (I recall an interview a few years back where they detailed the troubles of creating 2D sprites in a company where 99% of the artists work in 3D). The new mechakoopa frames are adorable, the Koopaling redesigns are full of personality, Winged Boom Boom is a beautiful gremlin and the world map looks incredibly clean. Heck, if they used the old P-Balloon sprites (and often despised flight mechanics), navigating those levels would be incredibly boring-looking and tedious. That one in particular is incredibly fun to use, and the sprites portray the player's actions seamlessly.

I was initially sceptical of stuff like the SMB1 thwomps, smw bowser, etc... too for the reason of "fitting in with the theme" but... not only have all styles shown to continue to be instantly recognizable, but also in some cases even more lively than before. I'd really love to see them take a shot at remastering the old classics in these upgraded styles, with more aesthetic variety, a 16:9 resolution with levels adapted for it and the refined controls.

TLDR: Both styles are beautiful, but all styles in SMM2 have gotten upgrades to make them more flexible and modern, and I think those touches help in making the overall experience more coherent and lively.
Even with the final update it will still be more limited than smbx in what you can do in my oppinion. We can literally create a million enemies, tile blocks, bgos etc and you can't do that in mm2.
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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby h2643 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:33 am

Teemster2 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:39 am
Even with the final update it will still be more limited than smbx in what you can do in my oppinion. We can literally create a million enemies, tile blocks, bgos etc and you can't do that in mm2.
I mean yeah, it's obvious SMBX is capable to do much much more under the right hands... but...

SMM2's main appeal is its wide choice of easy-to-use functions, albeit not customisable outside of what the game allows you to customise.
SMBX on other hand is more open to customisation for people, who know what they're doing... creating stuff takes a lot of time, and most of the time it's not as engaging as it's in SMM2. When a SMBX user works with lua code, graphics or even just simple custom NPC parameters, most of the time it takes trial and error to get it right, while in SMM2... you just place the element on the map and give it wings/mushroom/whatever. Don't forget about the learning curve. The amount of stuff to learn in SMBX may be overwhelming for a new user, especially when learning various engine quirks.

I think SMM2 is more of a relaxing experience for people when creating levels (mostly, not talking about those who create technical and troll levels, and spend weeks working on and polishing them), and it doesn't take a lot of time to learn stuff, compared to SMBX, because there's not much to learn in the first place. Options are limited. SMBX may take a month or two to learn completely, but when learned, possibilities can really become "endless" for the user. It's not as user-friendly though.

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Re: Super Mario Maker 2 3.0 - It now has koopalings and maps

Postby Enjl » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:50 am

Teemster2 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:39 am
Even with the final update it will still be more limited than smbx in what you can do in my oppinion. We can literally create a million enemies, tile blocks, bgos etc and you can't do that in mm2.
Limitation breeds creativity. The best SMM2 levels I've seen are much better than the best SMBX levels I've seen.
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