SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

General discussion about Super Mario Bros. X.
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Snessy the duck » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:03 am

What the fuck is a Blert, are they like some other species of Puyo?
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Zha Hong Lang » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:08 am

It's the best NPC ever don't insult it
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Snessy the duck » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:20 am

Zha Hong Lang wrote:It's the best NPC ever don't insult it

I know but what ARE they?
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Zha Hong Lang » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:36 am

It's an 100% original NPC designed to reproduce itself as long as the core is alive. The functionality was inspired by Conway's Game of Life, although it's not a perfect replica. True Game of Life NPCs will be added in later.
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby rockythechao » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 am

If by "some other species" you mean a store-brand knockoff, then yes, exactly.

In all seriousness, though, the blerts are the result of wanting to make a Conway's Game of Life NPC and justifying it by making it a variation of a simpler and more broadly-applicable NPC. They have a customizable radius and duplication rate, currently through the message string but eventually through plugins. I did consider making them puyos at some point, but I ultimately went with making them an original thing since they're different enough in behavior.

And yes, Vivian, you hit the nail on the head there. Sonic and DK are two of the characters that have been discussed as possible candidates for 2.1, Sonic because he's in incredibly high demand, DK because we have a super rough prototype of him already. But no more playables are being added before then because, among other reasons, pretty much all of the new characters need to be redone to some degree due to either structural issues with the code or design issues. We do have folks providing graphics for other characters like Kirby, Shantae, and Inklings, but the graphics are just a small part of the massive workload involved in creating new SMBX playables. Unless someone puts in the effort to prototype a character they're not going to make it in, and most of the folks on the team who are up to the task are working on other areas of beta 4 and/or other projects.

The Sonic NPC was added primarily for the same reason Megan was: offering more dedicated friendly NPCs for graphic swaps to whatever kind of sign or townsperson folks want them to be. I probably shouldn't have revealed him the way I did -- despite him being on the public claim sheet for a while now the other devs may have been planning a particular reveal for him and if so I probably just ruined that. So feel free to complain at me for that. Also feel free to call me out on putting off the SMB2 enemies I claimed in favor of these generic pink blobs.

I'm not apologizing for the memes though.

Edit: Beaten to the punch. I really need to figure out how to make quick responses without resorting to teasing and trolling.
Last edited by rockythechao on Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Zha Hong Lang » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:00 am

#concise
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby HenryRichard » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:43 pm

The Blerts look awesome - it's going to be really fun to design levels around them.

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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Lila M-3210 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:38 pm

I apologize for letting my memes be dreams.

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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby TheKidCodee » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:59 pm

Dr Vivian wrote:To be honest though, I'd take Sonic without proper Sonic physics. A character that can jump UP or sideways into enemies? Spindash? Barriers replacing powerups? (fire flower = fire barrier, for example) Going Super Sonic at 50 coins/rings? Maybe even a homing attack? That would be great, even without the proper physics...it's not like SMBX physics are super accurate anyway.

I know there are plenty of other factors involved, but I recall that being one of the main reasons why Sonic isn't going happen any time soon. (and too many new characters that need tweaking/rewriting too) I do recall someone saying that Sonic and Donkey Kong were heavily considered for 2.1 or something, but 2.1 would be after the Betas anyway obviously.

(I'm not saying Sonic would be easy or high priority even without those things, just to clarify)

1. Shields will not replace powerups. They will be seperate.
2. I have considered super sonic (even hyper sonic as well) but im not sure if lua can change palletes.
3. Homing attack wont be default. But there will be a homing shield from Sonic 3D blast.
4. I wont consider making seperate physics for sonic since that will take a long time to code.
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby PixelPest » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:01 am

You've been told countless that you don't have enough skills to do this stuff atm. Also making Sonic without Sonic physics is just totally pointless since his special physics are what makes him fun to play. Also how do you plan to make shields without replacing power-ups? And what do you mean by changing palettes? You're honestly just way too far ahead of yourself
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Cedur » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:05 am

can we please be reminded that this game is still called Super Mario Bros X? If every possible videogame character appears in 2.0 or 2.1 then we can straightly rename the game to Super Videogames Gallery X

(edit: removed ping from TheKidCodee)
Last edited by Cedur on Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby PixelPest » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:06 am

Sonic is planned as a possible playable for later on though, he's just very difficult as he has a unique physics system and some other tricky things about him so only a few of the Devs would probably be able to actually pull it off well
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Hoeloe » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:16 am

Cedur wrote:this game is still called Super Mario Bros X?


I don't buy this argument, to be honest.

SMBX is a game engine designed primarily for making Mario fangames. This much is true.

However, that doesn't mean other elements can't be included if they provide interesting tools. Even Redigit added Link as a playable, as well as various Metroid and Zelda objects. I believe he planned to add Samus as a playable too at one point.

Thing is, SMBX is primarily a game engine, with a focus on Mario games. However, there's no reason not to provide people with more tools if they can provide interesting things to work with. The Kirby blocks we added aren't Mario, but they have functionality that no block in the Mario universe has, and can provide new avenues for level design. The same is true of the Crash Bandicoot blocks that were added. We try to do the same thing for new characters too. Zelda is more focussed on puzzle gameplay than platforming, and Klonoa has a greater focus on enemy management than precision platforming. A hypothetical Sonic playable would be to focus on momentum gameplay, rather than precision gameplay, which, while still platforming, is a completely different experience.

SMBX2 is all about providing tools, and I don't buy the argument that we should not supply useful and interesting opportunities simply because they don't bear the "Mario" label.

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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Cedur » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:45 am

I'm not sure if you've got my point. I already voiced the concern about the oversupply coming from a high amount of playable characters. Altering from simple platforming mechanics is commonplace, and a few characters from "foreign" franchises can do well for that, I know. I’m not against introducing Sonic specifically, and I admit that I’m dragging the discussion to a general issue, but I again admonish “less is more”. If you talk about providing tools, you have to admit that you won’t be able to work with an excessively large toolbox. The whole thing must stay overlookable, and if that's not the case due to an abundance of characters, gimmicks and universes involved, then I also feel that the name "Mario" isn't really justified.
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby MarioMario369 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:07 am

[quote="rockythechao"ALSO GUESS WHAT
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HERE COME THE BLERTS[/spoiler][/quote]
What's Blerts? :?:
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Zha Hong Lang » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:22 am

Zha Hong Lang wrote:It's an 100% original NPC designed to reproduce itself as long as the core is alive. The functionality was inspired by Conway's Game of Life, although it's not a perfect replica. True Game of Life NPCs will be added in later.
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby TLtimelord » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:43 am

Cedur wrote:can we please be reminded that this game is still called Super Mario Bros X? If every possible videogame character appears in 2.0 or 2.1 then we can straightly rename the game to Super Videogames Gallery X

(edit: removed ping from TheKidCodee)


I guess we should remove Zelda and Metroid stuff from 1.3 then lol. This argument has no logical base.
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Spinda » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:06 am

+ most of the npcs added in beta 4 are from mario games so thats really not a good argument especially since npcs are arguably more important than playables to your average designer lol

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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Electriking » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:47 pm

TLtimelord wrote:
Cedur wrote:can we please be reminded that this game is still called Super Mario Bros X? If every possible videogame character appears in 2.0 or 2.1 then we can straightly rename the game to Super Videogames Gallery X

(edit: removed ping from TheKidCodee)


I guess we should remove Zelda and Metroid stuff from 1.3 then lol. This argument has no logical base.

Agreed

This argument is stupid and comes off as an excuse to remove all non-Mario things

Since Mario will remain as the primary theme of SMBX, I don't think there is anything wrong with keeping the name. And then if PGE is to replace SMBX then it will be known as Platformer Game Engine. Would you be happy with that?
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Re: SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

Postby Amyrakunejo » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:12 pm

The ONLY way Sonic could even be a character is if the entirety of Sonic's physics are involved. A side-scrolling Sonic game has a LOT of three dimensional elements. As is, that is difficult to do with SMBX.

Throwing doubts my way? Sure. How about...

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