Cut-off: just our imagination?

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Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby Prado » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:06 am

After I saw some cut-offs in the official Mario games, I started to think if it isn't a thing from our imagination. I mean, if even the official Mario games had a lot of cut-offs, what is the problem of having some of them in SMBX levels?

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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby PixelPest » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:08 am

Just because Nintendo's lazy and makes mistakes it doesn't mean we should too

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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby Prado » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:12 am

I agree that a lot of cut-offs make the level ugly, but those cut-offs in SMB3 didn't make any difference in the fun factor. In fact, I only noticed then now, after years.
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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby PixelPest » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:14 am

But it would still look better aesthetically imo if it had BGOs that would make it properly connected to the ground

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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby HeroLinik » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:15 am

Because in SMBX, it's possible to prevent them. The classic Mario games had limited assets to work with and thus they weren't focused on making the levels look good with fancy graphics and that; rather they focused on the difficulty curve and the level gameplay. Therefore, if there are cut-offs, then they are usually passed off because it was impossible to stop them in cases such as these. In SMBX though, we've got a lot of assets to work with, and this can be extended by the use of custom graphics, so therefore cut-offs can be prevented. Because these exist it becomes second nature to prevent cut-offs from occurring in levels, and thus levels can get marked down for it.

Also remember this: one cut-off, or a few, doesn't necessarily make a level bad. Too many though, and it'll become an eyesore.
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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby PixelPest » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:17 am

How would Nintendo have limited assets? They couldn't just create a background object or block to complete the pipe's connection with the ground?

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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby HeroLinik » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:19 am

PixelPest wrote:How would Nintendo have limited assets? They couldn't just create a background object or block to complete the pipe's connection with the ground?
Cartridge sizes. SMB3 was released in 1988 on a cart that could only take a maximum of 1MB. Most of it was taken up by the amount of worlds, levels, powerups and the like, which meant that there was no space on the cart to make a background object/block to prevent this cut-off with the ground. Of course, they could have taken advantage of it with the SNES cartridge of All-Stars, but then again there would be no space either because the rest of it would be taken up by the other games on it.
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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby Prado » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:30 am

Some cut-offs are really easy to fix, like this:

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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby HeroLinik » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:32 am

Prado wrote:Some cut-offs are really easy to fix, like this:

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Yeah, but that could be fixed by simply moving the bush sprite down a little. The pipe tiles are blocks so they don't behave the same way.
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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby RudeGuy » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:16 am

The one in the screenshot was probably an oversight. Cutoffs like that one were usually fixed by putting the fill tile under the pipe (which is slightly better, in my opinion).
Also, you have to remember that the cutoff was in Super Mario All Stars, which is a collection of remade games. If you look at SMW, you'll notice that there are (almost) no instances of cutoff.
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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby bossedit8 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:44 pm

Well to say you this about cutoffs in video games, Nintendo's design as of how it was back then they do had limitations as of what they can put tiles in and when they add more it surely will increase it's bitrate into a game's module and such to it's limits. I mean of course you can add anything onto a video game but well, not everything has to be perfect as of how it goes aslong as it plays good and be enjoyable to play throughoutly. Cutoffs in SMBX are always fixable by the developer of the level/episode but if they don't really want to fixed that's their move and at least with respect to deal with it can go along.

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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby Natsu » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:55 pm

Cutoffs are easily fixable on SMBX due to the aforementioned limitations being lesser. It is also worth noting that they couldn't do the same we can because background objects didn't render on a different priority such as it happens on SMBX and PGE, but everything was rendered under the same priority. If you happened to toy with Lunar Magic you might have noticed that unless you have the specific assets you can't place a bush behind a pipe, either of them you placed last will replace the other. The same applies to SMB3, which at the time it was made had a lot of limitations regardless of how much it accomplished.
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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby Snessy the duck » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:27 am

Intuition wrote:Cutoffs are easily fixable on SMBX due to the aforementioned limitations being lesser. It is also worth noting that they couldn't do the same we can because background objects didn't render on a different priority such as it happens on SMBX and PGE, but everything was rendered under the same priority. If you happened to toy with Lunar Magic you might have noticed that unless you have the specific assets you can't place a bush behind a pipe, either of them you placed last will replace the other. The same applies to SMB3, which at the time it was made had a lot of limitations regardless of how much it accomplished.
Not to mention, Nintendo obviously didn't have space enough on the cart to create a tile used specifically to fix a small one-off cutoff, like a pipe with another pipe behind it. Do you think they would waste two graphic slots in order to fix a small cutoff that's not really that noitcheable to the average player? Obviously not, cause those two slots could be used to much greater extent, like an enemy or something, and they'd obviously not waste it on that. You can also see that SMW's tilesets were built very flat compared to something like SMB3 cave, which helps minimize cutoff a lot.
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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby Witchking666 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:43 pm

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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby RSupertheGreat » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:52 pm

so i know cut-offs are really easy to fix especially to the pipes. heck, smw has almost no cut-offs. amazing tho.

imagine if the pipes are flying/floating, they're cut-offs. so it should be fixed with any matched colouring like the green bush.

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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby Electriking » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:13 pm

RSuper wrote:so i know cut-offs are really easy to fix especially to the pipes. heck, smw has almost no cut-offs. amazing tho.

imagine if the pipes are flying/floating, they're cut-offs. so it should be fixed with any matched colouring like the green bush.
That is not exactly fixing them though, just trying to cover them up. If a pipe is actually floating in midair, then this just makes it more weird by using a bush to fix it. You should attempt to actually put pipes into the ground properly.

And cut-offs are not something to do with imagination, they are the result of not properly checking a level for problems.
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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby Cedur » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:21 am

I just feel like saying that the cutoffs shown in the pic come off to me as nitpicky. I probably wouldn't even notice them as cutoffs if I wasn't told. Tile misuse is a completely different matter than this subtle thing.
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Re: Cut-off: just our imagination?

Postby Valtteri » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:43 am

HeroLinik wrote:
Prado wrote:Some cut-offs are really easy to fix, like this:

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Yeah, but that could be fixed by simply moving the bush sprite down a little. The pipe tiles are blocks so they don't behave the same way.
I think Prado was offering an easy solution to this kind of cut-off, not pointing out problems in that picture.
RudeGuy07 wrote:If you look at SMW, you'll notice that there are (almost) no instances of cutoff.
SMW wasn't exactly free of cutoff:
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PixelPest wrote:How would Nintendo have limited assets? They couldn't just create a background object or block to complete the pipe's connection with the ground?
As Intuition said, background objects don't work like that in real Mario games. They take a block's space just like solid blocks and one space can't be occupied by both a block and a background object.

To get structures like this:
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Nintendo had to create specific "fusion" tiles for these situations that would contain the brown background color:
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Another example:
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They needed a new tile that would have the blue background to have underwater slopes. Notice that not only is the background blue but the actual tile is a little different from the normal slope!
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SMB3 actually had specific tiles to fix cutoff in certain situations:
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Notice the added green color in the special tile to fill in the "holes" that would appear if the BGOs were placed on normal grass tiles. Redigit decided to add the filling color to the BGOs as a couple extra pixels underneath them rather than adding these special tiles to SMBX. Here's a SMB3 BGO on the left and the SMBX version on the right:
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