The Big Talk

Topics about events/announcements that are no longer relevant.
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Re: The Big Talk

Postby FireyPaperMario » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:32 pm

I.… Agreed with Vinyl just said...

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Re: The Big Talk

Postby MegaDood » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:36 pm

I appreciate what you had to say, and I agree with all of it. Being a leader is hard, and I respect all the decisions you will make about the staff of SMBX. Thank you for caring so much about our forums, we all truly appreciate the work you do Kley, even if its behind the scenes.
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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Lord Nagaviper » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:33 pm

As someone who isn't very active in this community anymore I was a bit hesitant about a jump to Reddit. A lot of subreddits based around small communities tend to go inactive or be littered with uninteresting threads from what I've seen. I feared that such a move would only exacerbate the very problem I myself am part of.
To me at least, SMBX has always been a forum-centric community. Having followed it since its inception, I can't really imagine how a move to Reddit might impact the already waning website presence. To my knowledge Discord seems to be pretty active though, so maybe a move to Reddit could have similarly produced active interest in the community.

All that being said, I'm glad that the admins took the time to listen to the community and I have respect for the work they do. I really hope that this community continues to live on one way or another because even though I'm hardly ever here it was my first big community and I'd hate to see it vanish.
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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Oshi » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:55 am

I'm usually not the one who speaks up about these kinds of things but it seems as if plenty of others have already done so, might as well drop my two cents into this.

First of all, I completely understand that administration can be very hard and not everyone is cut out for such a responsibility. I might not have very much experience with the job, but I know that huge decisions like these are not easy to come to, and the result isn't always guaranteed to be a good one. Not only that, but being able to be attractive to your members in the sense that they feel comfortable with being in the community is near impossible because, well, even though you are supposed to be the ones that they should look up to you are not perfect and you will make mistakes sometimes. Don't get me wrong though, it's not that I don't respect what you guys do, it's just that there are times when you do something that's unfavorable. I don't like to judge a person from face value like that.

Funny I should bring that up, actually. I won't say any names or describe any details, but on a specific occasion I saw what appeared to be some of the worst moderation and staff behavior I have ever seen, and I, among a few other members, where involved in said event. There was zero excuse for what happened there, and it brought me to the brink of almost wanting to leave this community. However, I decided to return even after that, and I never have regretted that decision yet; it's still most of the same SMBX that I remember when I first discovered it, it's just that new things are happening.

I'm a very dedicated fan in reality, though I never really show it. I remained silent during the huge meltdown that was the moving announcement, and when it finally ended I felt a moment of reassurance. I'm glad to know that we managed to show that we really care about this community by speaking up about it, though, and to a surprising quantity that I never expected. We even saw users who were inactive for a very long time suddenly rise up to the occasion. In the end, we displayed that this isn't just a meaningless, insignificant place that we found, but to us it's part of our soul, deep inside us somewhere. It was truly an amazing thing to witness.

Also, because I never said it before in the other thread, Reddit is one of the WORST places to have a community like this in it. One of the biggest reasons why is that SMBX is based around sharing content and enjoying your time with other fans of the game, whereas Reddit is based off of popularity and cliques, things that SMBX is not. Not saying that I'm against Reddit, it's just that we are two completely different worlds that don't mesh together well at all.

Just as a small closing note, for all those who it might concern (including Kley!): when you can't be around anymore, please know that I will support whatever path you chose to go on in your lives, as long as it's one that is worthwhile. And of course, I must say that I'm proud of the direction that things are going in now, and I hope that they continue going that way for a long time.
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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Knux » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:39 am

Nien wrote:Everyone's got specific qualifications going for them, age has never been a good indicator of maturity. The only difference that separates an immature underage user and an adult one most of the time is that the former is a child and the other one's a manchild. The other issue with establishing an age limit is that you've only got a few years before the moderator you just hired moves on to do more important things.
If you are honestly telling me that a 13-16 year old is mature enough to moderate a forum then I'm just gonna assume that you fall somewhere within that age category.

Nien wrote:it almost feels like you're baiting people by constantly pointing at them. Second, discussing issues in private is the exact thing that seems to have commenced this trainwreck. Questionable choices towards transparency and user input have always been the biggest factors that have plagued the SMBX community for years, and from what I'm reading right now, there's barely been any improvement in that department.
can you explain what you mean by the first sentence?

To clarify the private discussion part; I meant a conversation between myself and the staff to point out what works and what doesn't by running the site, based on how past staff teams work. This matter doesn't concern the community as much as it does exclusively the staff because this starts with them. Feel like I've either been misunderstood or have not made my initial point clear.

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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Marcus248 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:17 am

It's great that you spent so much time explaining your reasoning, and I'm sure it's been a relief for those who hadn't wanted the community to move to Discord. Thanks for keeping this alive Kley :)

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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Eri7 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:46 am

Marcus248 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:17 am
It's great that you spent so much time explaining your reasoning, and I'm sure it's been a relief for those who hadn't wanted the community to move to Discord. Thanks for keeping this alive Kley :)
The community kinda moved to discord, like we use the forums to post our stuff but discord to communicate so yeah.
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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Cedur » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:13 am

Marcus248 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:17 am
It's great that you spent so much time explaining your reasoning, and I'm sure it's been a relief for those who hadn't wanted the community to move to Discord. Thanks for keeping this alive Kley :)

Reddit, not Discord

while we established Discord as an important medium for real time talk and while we built further subcommunities on other servers, we haven't really "moved" to it

this deal was about shutting down the forums and transferring all of the community and forums to Reddit
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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Nien » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:54 pm

Knux wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:39 am
Nien wrote:Everyone's got specific qualifications going for them, age has never been a good indicator of maturity. The only difference that separates an immature underage user and an adult one most of the time is that the former is a child and the other one's a manchild. The other issue with establishing an age limit is that you've only got a few years before the moderator you just hired moves on to do more important things.
If you are honestly telling me that a 13-16 year old is mature enough to moderate a forum then I'm just gonna assume that you fall somewhere within that age category.
Those are some biig words, especially coming from someone who hired quite a bunch of people for their forum (including me) when they were within that age range. I get that you've grown to think that people should need age-based licenses for every privilige, but (fortunately) that's not the case.

Age does not define maturity. Literally all you have to do to hire a person is to individually analyse their character and maturity, and unless you have nonexistant social capabilities, it's not a very hard thing to do. Every person behaves differently, I've seen 30 year old peole who behave like children when presented with adversities, and I've seen 16 year olds who are perfectly capable of receiving constructive critiscism and taking on responsabilities. They're not rare ocurrences.
Knux wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:39 am
Nien wrote:it almost feels like you're baiting people by constantly pointing at them. Second, discussing issues in private is the exact thing that seems to have commenced this trainwreck. Questionable choices towards transparency and user input have always been the biggest factors that have plagued the SMBX community for years, and from what I'm reading right now, there's barely been any improvement in that department.
can you explain what you mean by the first sentence?
You cut off the first part. I was implying that the age-limit argument was so irrational (ESPECIALLY considering the context of this community) that it almost feels like it's a bait.
Knux wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:39 am
To clarify the private discussion part; I meant a conversation between myself and the staff to point out what works and what doesn't by running the site, based on how past staff teams work. This matter doesn't concern the community as much as it does exclusively the staff because this starts with them. Feel like I've either been misunderstood or have not made my initial point clear.
The way the staff runs the site definitely concerns the community. The staff needs to behave in a manner that conforms to the community's needs, and considering that it was explicitly stated in this topic that the staff completely misjudged the userbase's interests, I doubt they're in a position to know what the best course of action is. With this, and the fact that the staff lineup barely changed at all (there's only one new moderator and two promotions from mod to admin), another private discussion is likely not gonna lead to anything.

The "This doesn't concern the community" thought process has always been the major factor behind 90% of the dramatic incidents that have happened throughout the years.

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Re: The Big Talk

Postby godblessamerica21 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:00 pm

[redacted]

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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Core » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:16 pm

Is that some kind of joke? Then it's a bad joke.

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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Waddle » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:52 pm

godblessamerica21 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:37 pm
when i get mod your ass is grass amigo

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wait do i hav eto apply to be a moderator? can some1 link me thanks

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Re: The Big Talk

Postby FireyPaperMario » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:53 pm

Waddle Derp wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:52 pm
(don't worry he's gone)
Thank god! I was just about to tell people to ignore him. :roll:

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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Knux » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:48 pm

Those are some biig words, especially coming from someone who hired quite a bunch of people for their forum (including me) when they were within that age range.
Yeah, 'cause I was 14. I thought I was mature, like everyone else. Nobody was.

I've actually been writing up a lengthy documentation regarding this issue, amongst others.
Age does not define maturity. Literally all you have to do to hire a person is to individually analyse their character and maturity, and unless you have nonexistant social capabilities, it's not a very hard thing to do. Every person behaves differently, I've seen 30 year old peole who behave like children when presented with adversities, and I've seen 16 year olds who are perfectly capable of receiving constructive critiscism and taking on responsabilities. They're not rare ocurrences.
I would argue that in my entire time as leader that everyone was, to an extent, too young for their role. Again, this will be in my documentation.

I was implying that the age-limit argument was so irrational (ESPECIALLY considering the context of this community) that it almost feels like it's a bait.
It's hardly irrational. I believe it is one of the main reasons why staff teams don't work out.

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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Natsu » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:07 pm

I agree with Nien on this one. Maturity does come with age but it means nothing when the person in question acts like a total dipwad. Easily the best example that comes to mind was a certain 25-year-old user whose name I've forgotten who would bitch about the dumbest things. He would burst with anger at the smallest hint of criticism, threat users for complaining about him, and some other stuff that I don't quite remember. Granted it is a common occurrence that someone would pretend to be at another age, but my interactions with him gave me the vibe that he wasn't lying. He had his share of hardships IRL and the forums transformed into his outlet. One warning away from being banned, during the three warnings and you're banned kind of system, he came to me and apologized for his behavior. He thanked me for acting the way I did around him, and since then became an active and kind member of our community. I have long since lost contact with him, but that kind of stuff stuck with me y'know?
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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Marcus248 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:12 pm

Cedur wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:13 am
Marcus248 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:17 am
It's great that you spent so much time explaining your reasoning, and I'm sure it's been a relief for those who hadn't wanted the community to move to Discord. Thanks for keeping this alive Kley :)

Reddit, not Discord

while we established Discord as an important medium for real time talk and while we built further subcommunities on other servers, we haven't really "moved" to it

this deal was about shutting down the forums and transferring all of the community and forums to Reddit
Yea I realized the typo I made. I was well aware of that, lol.

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Re: The Big Talk

Postby 64searchman46 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:20 pm

Honestly, at first I had no idea this was going on. I've been busy lately, and on the forums less than I usually am. Though, I'm not much of an active person in the community, I really hope this can be overcome. I get that the staff members will have real-life to attend to, as we all do, and so I understand that. I hope the staff change can overall improve the community, allowing for more contact and synergy between the users and the staff. I really don't want to see the community crash and burn because of this. As of late I've trying to get on more, see and engage with other users and their content, and I hope I can continue to do so. This community means a lot to me, even if I am not on it all the time. Even when I leave this community behind, I hope it will continue to thrive and, hopefully, grow. May we all get through this. I hope we do.
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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Teemster2 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:30 pm

I have not read the entire thread. Working 6 days a week for more than a month and spending time with my family has made my time here less.

I plan to read everything later but I wanted to say the op by kley speaks volumes. Kley you come off as a very mature person who cares about the comminity. The community does not have as many members as it used to or so it seems and there may not be enough people left that can fill the roles needed but this is for the most part a great community and it's nice to know your not ready to give up just yet. If you ever do decide to throw in the towel I'm sure the people that really care and have your back would understand.

Thanks for posting this. I don't get on discord. Take care.

Added in 1 hour 18 minutes 58 seconds:
Knux wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:47 pm
I will say that the staff have dealt with the backlash very well, in past instances some members have just rage-quit and brushed SMBX off out of their lives completely. I believe that we have the 'perfect balance' because the staff running this place haven't been heavily influenced by the poor decisions that nobody learned from.
People are going to be shifted around, people are being hired, and some people are being let go. It sucks to have to let some people go, but it is what it is.
I think what differeates us from other online communities is that, again, the primary interest is based on the Super Mario Bros. franchise. We've had staff members as young as 12 running as moderators before. Staff should, in my opinion, be for members in their 20s and onwards. 13-19 year olds aren't mature enough for this role, bar some exceptions. With college, future work and natural life-style changes, relying on younger staff members isn't a good idea anyway because most of the time they'll have to move on. Look at Valtteri for example, he went to the Navy. He's hardly here now, despite being an influential and well-respected member.

I still believe that there are more problems with the SMBX staff team that are seperate from age-groups though. This may be a discussion best suited between the current staff and I in private, although the public definitely should be allowed to put in their ideas and experiences too.
I don't agree entirely on having the staff be older but let me explain why. It is a proven fact the human brain does not fully mature until you are 25-30 years old and while girls do mature faster, the mind of a teenager is not really ready to run this site let alone be able to handle problems maturely.

Having said that most of our user base is probably younger. There is not a lot of people like me here in their 30's I would guess. So it is harder to find staff if you limit it to older people. Plus giving younger people such teenagers more responsibility it helps them to be more responsible later in life to. As teenagers they need to have opportunities like the rest of us so they can learn and become more mature.

I honestly would not have to many teenagers on the staff or the quality of the site could decline but having a few that the team could work with is not much of a problem. This game was made for kids and adults but I would guess more kids play smbx than adults. We should treat them just like everyone else and make them feel welcome here.

Added in 8 minutes 25 seconds:
Eri7 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:07 pm
Kley, you are forgiven! Everyone makes mistakes, that's part of our human nature, we just have to learn from them and make sure we don't commit the same mistakes again!
It's time for the new generation of smbx users to take place of running the community, as you have seen, there are a lot of flaws by letting veterans do so much work considering how busy they are with their lives as well.
There are a lot of people who will happily take their place and make sure they are as good as the old staff, you just don't know it yet as you haven't interacted much with the community!
Do you seriously believe that out of over 2000 users, nobody is capable of doing the staff's job? No! As i said, its time to start giving a chance to other people and let the community grow, this is how we are going to continue, by allowing the next generation to take a part of running the community.
This community is very important for me and i want to see only the best for it and i hope everyone tries to put effort into making this a reality.
There is a difference between the number of users and active users. Some users just post once or twice and never come back but yes I know what you are trying to say.

Added in 8 minutes 26 seconds:
TheLordKhon wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:21 pm
Knux wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:47 pm
13-19 year olds aren't mature enough for this role
i'm sure a 9 year old would think twice before erasing an entire forum
Do you have kids? I do and I can tell you 100% you are wrong. I am a step dad and I gave a 15 year old in foster care who destroys thousands of dollars worth of stuff when she gets angry. A 9 year old is capable of anything. Trust me.

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I want to point out adults can be just as immature as kids. Every person develops differently.
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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Cedur » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:48 am

Teemster2 wrote:
TheLordKhon wrote:
Knux wrote: 13-19 year olds aren't mature enough for this role
i'm sure a 9 year old would think twice before erasing an entire forum
Do you have kids? I do and I can tell you 100% you are wrong. I am a step dad and I gave a 15 year old in foster care who destroys thousands of dollars worth of stuff when she gets angry. A 9 year old is capable of anything. Trust me.

This was just meme talk from TheLordKhon, referencing when Knux deleted all posts on this forums just two weeks after it opened (which is why you won't find any posts from 2013).

Also the whole age vs. maturity issue has been widely discussed further in a different thread, with the clear consensus of the community being about what you just wrote yourself.
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Re: The Big Talk

Postby Knux » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:44 pm

Cedur wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:48 am
Teemster2 wrote:
TheLordKhon wrote:
i'm sure a 9 year old would think twice before erasing an entire forum
Do you have kids? I do and I can tell you 100% you are wrong. I am a step dad and I gave a 15 year old in foster care who destroys thousands of dollars worth of stuff when she gets angry. A 9 year old is capable of anything. Trust me.

This was just meme talk from TheLordKhon, referencing when Knux deleted all posts on this forums just two weeks after it opened (which is why you won't find any posts from 2013).

Also the whole age vs. maturity issue has been widely discussed further in a different thread, with the clear consensus of the community being about what you just wrote yourself.
even then though, i was 17 at the time? too immature lol


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