The Current Problem with SMBX

General discussion about Super Mario Bros. X.
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Re: The Current Problem on SMBX

Postby Reign » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:36 am

Aero wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:30 pm
SBells27 wrote: True, but episode of the year could be nice, since choosing from around 30 episodes is a good enough amount. In fact, episode of the year can encourage people to make episodes.

The question for me is not if it can be done but rather should this be done.
It doesn't have to be a month or a year. Previously we had the "Featured episode" thing, and sometimes an episode would be up for one month, sometimes four months depending on the amount and quality of episodes released recently. I don't see a problem going back to that.

Although the choice of featured episodes should definitely not come down to visuals.

Also thanks to Enjl for clarifying. I still think having more focus on episodes on this site would not take away anything.
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby anstar » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:23 pm

I play a good number of episodes and just as Eclipsed said, nobody would watch a video portraying an episode for 2-3 hrs. So as I do, better to make a video of the bosses of the episodes, final ones, and then you can post them on YouTube. That's why recently I created a thread for best smbx endings and boss fights.
See an episode should not only have good levels, it should also have an intriguing storyline. An episode with fine level design and a slapstick story is no better than an episode with an intriguing story but lacklustre level design.
So if you HAVE TO appreciate episodes, just do it in parts like;
Best Boss Fight of the Year
Best Castle Level
Best Storyline
Best Endings and so on
That's why I am bent upon promoting the endings of episodes much. I released 2 vids on that too, have a look:
https://youtu.be/vANKhVAYMMo
https://youtu.be/m-lV68UZDFM
(I have rated the episodes played, so that it makes much more sense, and you can call it sort of "my own epispde of the year")
This is how you can prote episodes i.e. you have to create the interest so that people can try it out.
That's all

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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Enjl » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:34 pm

If those videos weren't literally bowser 10 times in a row I would be upset at you going out of your way to spoil the thing people are most likely to not want to know about going into a game (the climax).
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Eclipsed » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:29 pm

I would like to make it clear that I meant no one wants to watch a video that has all of the episodes compiled in one together not a full video of an episode.

Also, some of those bosses I stated in the other thread weren’t that polished.

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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Knux » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:52 am

Members of the SMBX community has always been at arms lengths with one another.

The worst of divisions were between 2012-14, which, funnily enough, was also one of the community's highest activity periods.

-

Speaking as a veteran though, myself and many other members have outgrown SMBX. I absolutely cherish the memories I had for over a decade (this time 10 years ago, I announced The Great Empire btw, so time really flies), but likewise with everyone else, we're too busy/lost interest, or other factors. In truth, people who claim to quit SMBX in fact, never quit SMBX. They'd go on guest mode for a few days then change their mind, we all did it lol. Activity really died out because those people have grown up and moved on.

Anyway, in regards to things seeming quiet:

In 2007, we had a level editor known as Super Mario Flash. It's still online, and it's not...great, but in 2007 it was the greatest find ever for peeps who wanted to make the marios.
SMBX was benefitical because unlike other editors it wasn't too simplistic/limited, but at the same time wasn't overly complicated for newcomers like Lunar Magic was.

While not without its flaws, SMBX was ground-breaking at the time of its release and development. Now we have so many more editors, including some that did exist pre-SMBX that have since been vastly improved, and the releases of Super Mario Makers 1 and 2 will no doubt have redirected the interests of those who probably would have found SMBX.

I want to make it clear that what I'm saying isn't based off fact or anything, it's just what I consider to be a good theory.

-

But as I said in my opening texts, none of this stuff is new. SMBX projects used to get a ton of attention in 2009-10, but so many people failed to live up to promises. This isn't strictly to do with the lack of attention; while it certaintly doesn't help with motivation, people often forget that SMBX projects take an insane ammount of dedication and time to make (and likewise with what Saltlord said, people's commitment is also an issue). It's a difficult process , users should be more focused on helping one another's motivation rather than say "oh that looks cool". That's what kills it. People are supportive, but in the most minimalist way possible. more or less recycling the same comments over and over again.
This has always been a thing. it sucks, but maybe the community could focus on what the root to this is, rather than just bring it up. because everything people are talking about, while perfectly valid points, are addressed, but never resolved. to me, this has always been the number one, current problem with SMBX.

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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby DrMekar » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:12 am

Knux wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:52 am
Members of the SMBX community has always been at arms lengths with one another.

The worst of divisions were between 2012-14, which, funnily enough, was also one of the community's highest activity periods.

-

Speaking as a veteran though, myself and many other members have outgrown SMBX. I absolutely cherish the memories I had for over a decade (this time 10 years ago, I announced The Great Empire btw, so time really flies), but likewise with everyone else, we're too busy/lost interest, or other factors. In truth, people who claim to quit SMBX in fact, never quit SMBX. They'd go on guest mode for a few days then change their mind, we all did it lol. Activity really died out because those people have grown up and moved on.

Anyway, in regards to things seeming quiet:

In 2007, we had a level editor known as Super Mario Flash. It's still online, and it's not...great, but in 2007 it was the greatest find ever for peeps who wanted to make the marios.
SMBX was benefitical because unlike other editors it wasn't too simplistic/limited, but at the same time wasn't overly complicated for newcomers like Lunar Magic was.

While not without its flaws, SMBX was ground-breaking at the time of its release and development. Now we have so many more editors, including some that did exist pre-SMBX that have since been vastly improved, and the releases of Super Mario Makers 1 and 2 will no doubt have redirected the interests of those who probably would have found SMBX.

I want to make it clear that what I'm saying isn't based off fact or anything, it's just what I consider to be a good theory.

-

But as I said in my opening texts, none of this stuff is new. SMBX projects used to get a ton of attention in 2009-10, but so many people failed to live up to promises. This isn't strictly to do with the lack of attention; while it certaintly doesn't help with motivation, people often forget that SMBX projects take an insane ammount of dedication and time to make (and likewise with what Saltlord said, people's commitment is also an issue). It's a difficult process , users should be more focused on helping one another's motivation rather than say "oh that looks cool". That's what kills it. People are supportive, but in the most minimalist way possible. more or less recycling the same comments over and over again.
This has always been a thing. it sucks, but maybe the community could focus on what the root to this is, rather than just bring it up. because everything people are talking about, while perfectly valid points, are addressed, but never resolved. to me, this has always been the number one, current problem with SMBX.
Great Summary.

While not even close to being a Veteran of SMBX (Started using it in 2014, Became a Part of the Community in 2017) I can agree especially with last part of your text. I think in all my time here I only have gotten one review of an Episode of mine, the orginal Mario Heroes 1 and it really felt great. Aside from that and two rare Examples of great folks who even went on to make something for my project, I have never really got any "real" Feedback. I though have to admit that I myself are not much better there. While looking in the Episodes Forum quite often actually, I unfortunatly have this tick of losing immidiate intrest in a project once I read something a Bowser doing whatever, problably a burden if you have created an entire universe of Characters including Hundreds of Villains, Heroes and even own Species.

Not getting any Feedback sucks, without a Question.
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby SBells27 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:18 pm

DrMekar wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:12 am
Knux wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:52 am
Members of the SMBX community has always been at arms lengths with one another.

The worst of divisions were between 2012-14, which, funnily enough, was also one of the community's highest activity periods.

-

Speaking as a veteran though, myself and many other members have outgrown SMBX. I absolutely cherish the memories I had for over a decade (this time 10 years ago, I announced The Great Empire btw, so time really flies), but likewise with everyone else, we're too busy/lost interest, or other factors. In truth, people who claim to quit SMBX in fact, never quit SMBX. They'd go on guest mode for a few days then change their mind, we all did it lol. Activity really died out because those people have grown up and moved on.

Anyway, in regards to things seeming quiet:

In 2007, we had a level editor known as Super Mario Flash. It's still online, and it's not...great, but in 2007 it was the greatest find ever for peeps who wanted to make the marios.
SMBX was benefitical because unlike other editors it wasn't too simplistic/limited, but at the same time wasn't overly complicated for newcomers like Lunar Magic was.

While not without its flaws, SMBX was ground-breaking at the time of its release and development. Now we have so many more editors, including some that did exist pre-SMBX that have since been vastly improved, and the releases of Super Mario Makers 1 and 2 will no doubt have redirected the interests of those who probably would have found SMBX.

I want to make it clear that what I'm saying isn't based off fact or anything, it's just what I consider to be a good theory.

-

But as I said in my opening texts, none of this stuff is new. SMBX projects used to get a ton of attention in 2009-10, but so many people failed to live up to promises. This isn't strictly to do with the lack of attention; while it certaintly doesn't help with motivation, people often forget that SMBX projects take an insane ammount of dedication and time to make (and likewise with what Saltlord said, people's commitment is also an issue). It's a difficult process , users should be more focused on helping one another's motivation rather than say "oh that looks cool". That's what kills it. People are supportive, but in the most minimalist way possible. more or less recycling the same comments over and over again.
This has always been a thing. it sucks, but maybe the community could focus on what the root to this is, rather than just bring it up. because everything people are talking about, while perfectly valid points, are addressed, but never resolved. to me, this has always been the number one, current problem with SMBX.
Great Summary.

While not even close to being a Veteran of SMBX (Started using it in 2014, Became a Part of the Community in 2017) I can agree especially with last part of your text. I think in all my time here I only have gotten one review of an Episode of mine, the orginal Mario Heroes 1 and it really felt great. Aside from that and two rare Examples of great folks who even went on to make something for my project, I have never really got any "real" Feedback. I though have to admit that I myself are not much better there. While looking in the Episodes Forum quite often actually, I unfortunatly have this tick of losing immidiate intrest in a project once I read something a Bowser doing whatever, problably a burden if you have created an entire universe of Characters including Hundreds of Villains, Heroes and even own Species.

Not getting any Feedback sucks, without a Question.
Yeah, I personally been feeling this too. Getting negative feedback gives you the opportunity to look on your work and improve upon it. No feedback however, seems bunkers.
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Cedur » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:24 pm

In DrMekar's case I really need to say that what he actually started out with didn't seem interesting at all to me (wasn't he focusing on boss rushes at the beginning?). I only just saw that now he's making a really interesting project, but I just never have the time to check it out. I promise that AT THE LATEST when it's completed and turns into a full episode, I'll be excited enough to check it out.

And yeah he's also not building himself any kind of network on Discord.
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Teemster2 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:36 pm

Knux wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:52 am
Members of the SMBX community has always been at arms lengths with one another.

The worst of divisions were between 2012-14, which, funnily enough, was also one of the community's highest activity periods.

-

Speaking as a veteran though, myself and many other members have outgrown SMBX. I absolutely cherish the memories I had for over a decade (this time 10 years ago, I announced The Great Empire btw, so time really flies), but likewise with everyone else, we're too busy/lost interest, or other factors. In truth, people who claim to quit SMBX in fact, never quit SMBX. They'd go on guest mode for a few days then change their mind, we all did it lol. Activity really died out because those people have grown up and moved on.

Anyway, in regards to things seeming quiet:

In 2007, we had a level editor known as Super Mario Flash. It's still online, and it's not...great, but in 2007 it was the greatest find ever for peeps who wanted to make the marios.
SMBX was benefitical because unlike other editors it wasn't too simplistic/limited, but at the same time wasn't overly complicated for newcomers like Lunar Magic was.

While not without its flaws, SMBX was ground-breaking at the time of its release and development. Now we have so many more editors, including some that did exist pre-SMBX that have since been vastly improved, and the releases of Super Mario Makers 1 and 2 will no doubt have redirected the interests of those who probably would have found SMBX.

I want to make it clear that what I'm saying isn't based off fact or anything, it's just what I consider to be a good theory.

-

But as I said in my opening texts, none of this stuff is new. SMBX projects used to get a ton of attention in 2009-10, but so many people failed to live up to promises. This isn't strictly to do with the lack of attention; while it certaintly doesn't help with motivation, people often forget that SMBX projects take an insane ammount of dedication and time to make (and likewise with what Saltlord said, people's commitment is also an issue). It's a difficult process , users should be more focused on helping one another's motivation rather than say "oh that looks cool". That's what kills it. People are supportive, but in the most minimalist way possible. more or less recycling the same comments over and over again.
This has always been a thing. it sucks, but maybe the community could focus on what the root to this is, rather than just bring it up. because everything people are talking about, while perfectly valid points, are addressed, but never resolved. to me, this has always been the number one, current problem with SMBX.
I'm not sure if your the oldest member here but I noticed years ago (2011) you were an active member and I think it's great you still visit the forums. It's nice to know some people never give up on smbx.
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Cedur » Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:22 pm

By the way Knux, if you read this, what's your stance on SMBX2?
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby DrMekar » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:23 pm

Cedur wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:24 pm
In DrMekar's case I really need to say that what he actually started out with didn't seem interesting at all to me (wasn't he focusing on boss rushes at the beginning?). I only just saw that now he's making a really interesting project, but I just never have the time to check it out. I promise that AT THE LATEST when it's completed and turns into a full episode, I'll be excited enough to check it out.

And yeah he's also not building himself any kind of network on Discord.
I technically was, though I had already created Boss Rush 1.0 - 8.0 to the Time I joined, so it seemed logically to me to post them. Now I barely do Boss Rushes anymore with the exception of The Remake Timeline, though it's anything but my focus, even though I'm really satisfied with the "Remake of 3.0", March of Vargas. Thanks, I'll keep that in mind ;).

I just got around to even check Discord out. Maybe I'll make some one day, the Heroes Timeline and the SotU Timeline defenitly had enougth Content, though the later will rather get a Wiki, I think.
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Knux » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:40 pm

teemstar2: been here on and off since december 2009, so over 10 years :)

cedur: indifferent. i can't play new builds of SMBX on my mac now, so I havent been able to try/bothered looking into it

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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby SBells27 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:47 pm

So this is a part 2 of the post I made about the problems I felt are currently happening on SMBX. This time around, is to propose solutions to those problems. (Btw, this is not an april fools post). Again, this is my opinion and feel free to disagree. Anyways:

Include thumbnails or covers next to the title: This obviously doesn't represent the quality, but I feel like a lot of people usually decide to give an episode/level a chance based on the title around. Yes the post can include screenshots and a bunch of other stuff to convince the person, but the content of the post is only seen by clicking on the episode. Books, games, movies, youtube videos, etc; all include a cover that helps to represent the product, so, why not including this on SMBX as well?

Include a rating system: Speaking of the things that can help an episode/level click or stand out, why not include a rating system. That way people can see the general reception the episode or level has recieved and can convince the person to play it. And aside from that idea alone, I think a lot of people could be interested which episodes or levels are recieved the most well or the least well for example. I seriously don't think views are neccesarrilly the best way to represent the general reception of an episode.

Including a sorting by newer or older by forum post: Simply put, why the heck can you not sort it by newest or oldest from the forum post time. Yes there's post time, but that's different from an entire forum.

Episode of the year/month: Yes, I talked about this before, but shouldn't there be an episode of the year/month? I get it, episodes aren't uploaded as frequently as levels, but I feel like with the creation of a episode of the year/month contest can help to encourage people to make their own episodes. Or, why not updating the featured episode of the month at least?
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Teemster2 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:10 am

I think people need to worry less about the community and just have fun with smbx. One of my problems when I first joined was getting caught up in the drama or being rude which turned people off and made my experience here less fun. Part of the problem was me voicing my oppinion on how these forums could improve not realizing they are just fine.

We keep trying to fix and improve the community which is fine but we may have to accept the fact not everything here will be perfect. I have seen people trying to improve the community for years and right now I feel besides a few issues over all its a descent community.

Maybe we all just need to be more chill and relaxed and enjoy the community for what it is.
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Reign » Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:22 am

SBells27 wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:47 pm
So this is a part 2 of the post I made about the problems I felt are currently happening on SMBX. This time around, is to propose solutions to those problems. (Btw, this is not an april fools post). Again, this is my opinion and feel free to disagree. Anyways:

Include thumbnails or covers next to the title: This obviously doesn't represent the quality, but I feel like a lot of people usually decide to give an episode/level a chance based on the title around. Yes the post can include screenshots and a bunch of other stuff to convince the person, but the content of the post is only seen by clicking on the episode. Books, games, movies, youtube videos, etc; all include a cover that helps to represent the product, so, why not including this on SMBX as well?

Include a rating system: Speaking of the things that can help an episode/level click or stand out, why not include a rating system. That way people can see the general reception the episode or level has recieved and can convince the person to play it. And aside from that idea alone, I think a lot of people could be interested which episodes or levels are recieved the most well or the least well for example. I seriously don't think views are neccesarrilly the best way to represent the general reception of an episode.

Including a sorting by newer or older by forum post: Simply put, why the heck can you not sort it by newest or oldest from the forum post time. Yes there's post time, but that's different from an entire forum.

Episode of the year/month: Yes, I talked about this before, but shouldn't there be an episode of the year/month? I get it, episodes aren't uploaded as frequently as levels, but I feel like with the creation of a episode of the year/month contest can help to encourage people to make their own episodes. Or, why not updating the featured episode of the month at least?
Completely agree with all of your suggestions. I don't think this whole issue should be left hanging like it is now.
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Enjl » Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:45 am

As for sorting, ranking, rating, thumbnails: What you're looking for is a database. Feel free to set one up on your own server. Establishing links between servers is easy to do, after all.

As for episode of the year: I really dislike these kinds of "x of the x" highlights, because if done with the intent of highlighting the best they often either exclude runner-ups that up to 49% of people might have preferred, or become meaningless in that intent when put too broadly. Level of the Month is a good concept because the video has all levels in it. Episodes take hours to days to complete, so applying the same concept is unfeasible. The closest idea I'd also enjoy is a recap of all finished/wip episodes uploaded in each season/year, as I outlined in this suggestion. Those selections of ALL content could also easily be summarized into a little teaser trailer of all uploaded finished episodes (and one for wip ones with demos) once every season.

The caveat with these kinds of suggestions is that somebody would need to volunteer to become a competent PR person/team, almost certainly independently of the forum management.
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Cedur » Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:52 am

I think by the beginning of 2021 at latest we'll have enough finished projects for another iteration of featured episode. (which is different from "Episode of the month" since it includes the past and lasts as long as apropriate). The page needs updating to include 2014 and the second half of 2017 as well. (if you want to omit Airship Attack, I'm fine with it)
SBells27 wrote:Including a sorting by newer or older by forum post: Simply put, why the heck can you not sort it by newest or oldest from the forum post time. Yes there's post time, but that's different from an entire forum.

I don't get what you're expressing here.
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Enjl » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:21 am

Cedur wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:52 am
I think by the beginning of 2021 at latest we'll have enough finished projects for another iteration of featured episode. (which is different from "Episode of the month" since it includes the past and lasts as long as apropriate). The page needs updating to include 2014 and the second half of 2017 as well. (if you want to omit Airship Attack, I'm fine with it)
Seasonal model without discriminating between quality is better than featured episode because featured episode in the past has been prone to arbitrary padding to retain the monthly format of arbitrary selection, as well as fuzzy quality standards that served no purpose since the people looking for episodes to play will have already played it. Seasonal model will build a catalogue of episodes accurately put against the time they released in, allowing people to judge the quality from the abstract or footage provided (or database rating system if someone makes one), which sounds much more... sane to me.
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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby Eclipsed » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:59 am

Right now I’m working on a top 10% (not including remakes/contests) of all smbx episodes on virtue of how fun it is to 100% them. This will include episodes from this forum and others.

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Re: The Current Problem with SMBX

Postby SBells27 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:01 am

Eclipsed wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:59 am
Right now I’m working on a top 10% (not including remakes/contests) of all smbx episodes on virtue of how fun it is to 100% them. This will include episodes from this forum and others.
Hey nice.

Added in 50 seconds:
Cedur wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:52 am
I think by the beginning of 2021 at latest we'll have enough finished projects for another iteration of featured episode. (which is different from "Episode of the month" since it includes the past and lasts as long as apropriate). The page needs updating to include 2014 and the second half of 2017 as well. (if you want to omit Airship Attack, I'm fine with it)
SBells27 wrote:Including a sorting by newer or older by forum post: Simply put, why the heck can you not sort it by newest or oldest from the forum post time. Yes there's post time, but that's different from an entire forum.

I don't get what you're expressing here.
I meant being able to sort the forums by their debut post date and not by latest post of the forum.
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