Complaint

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Ignoritus
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Re: Complaint

Postby Ignoritus » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:30 pm

If they were using a proxy, it was the proxy that was banned, not the natural IP. They can still join and post if they re-register with that natural IP. I don't see anything wrong with having a non-anonymity rule. The only issue I see is that it's not properly advertised.
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Re: Complaint

Postby BTB » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:31 pm

they would be banned again for ban evading
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Re: Complaint

Postby GhostHawk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:39 pm

8bitmushroom wrote:
Anonymity when using the internet is a thing which can be taken for granted in today’s world. When a person surfs the web their computer is given a public IP address. This address can be used to determine much information about a computer which is linked to the internet. Information such as country of origin, state, region and city can be determined from an IP not to mention it can be used to track things such as what sites you may have visited while surfing the web. As a user of the internet you may not want to have such information readily available for anyone in the world to see and for this reason you may want to hide your IP address. You may ask, why would I want to hide my IP address while browsing the internet as I am not up to anything illegal. Many people associate hiding there IP address with hacking or other illicit online activities but the truth is there are a multitude of completely legitimate reasons why you may want to hide your IP.
  • You may be connecting to the internet in a public area such as a library, restaurant, hotel or internet cafe and don’t want your surfing to be tracked by others.
  • You may not want to take a chance on your private information being exposed so choose to surf anonymously.
  • You may not want your surfing habits tracked by companies or online advertisers.
  • You may go to a school or work at an emplorer or live in a country where web surfing is greatly restricted or content is highly filtered.
  • You may want to access content that is available only to people in certain areas or countries.
  • You just may not like the idea of possibly having your every move monitored and tracked.
As you can see there are many reasons why you would want to hide your IP that have nothing at all to do with illegal activity and are simply about protecting your privacy.
I was thinking of using a VPN or something similar when I move to my new house just so I can remain somewhat anonymous, since my IP address is going to be changed obviously, nobody can track me via my previous one. If you are going to ban a user because they were using a VPN and you suspected them of being a spammer right off the bat, that drives me away from being somewhat anonymous, which will in turn drive me away from this place. It makes me lose respect for the staff and their unjustified actions.

GhostHawk, you seem to be evading the questions as to why Sundowner was banned. He seemed like a perfectly fine user, he hasn't committed any offences except the rule you made up on the fly to compensate for the fact that one doesn't exist, which would be that you aren't allowed to use a VPN, and that is a bullshit rule in general, because users should have the right to have some privacy. I don't think you realize it's pretty easy to obtain somebody's IP address.

I thought you were a pretty good moderator, but telling people to leave the community if they want to keep their anonymity? That's outrageous, and you lost some respect from me for saying that. You shouldn't ban a VPN out of fear that it could be a potential spammer, because you have no proof, no solid evidence that they were a spammer, they didn't even spam once. You basically more or less took away their right to remain anonymous, which a lot of people not only do, but want to do, on the Internet.

Banning Sundowner was unjustified.
Banning michel was unjustified.
You could have done a lot better than this.
To be completely clear I'm not directing anyone away from the community. I'm saying that nobody is forcing you to stay, which would change the entire context of what I'm saying. Now, about your VPN, it will be completely fine for you to use it as long as it doesn't show up on spam filters. As I mentioned, I take the spammer's IPs and compare them to their other ones and check the results of different spam filters. I only ban IPs when they get a lot of results, not one or two to ensure they aren't false positives. Now I'm listening to you on the "made up rule on the fly," thing however in the context of the situation of the spammers I feel it necessary to disallow proxy servers since that is the means that the spammers are using to ban evade. After that blows over then I'll be far more open to letting VPNs in, so long as they don't show up across the board of abuse lists.

I'll unban Sundowner's IP but if it's used for spam, I'll still need to keep watching proxies.
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Re: Complaint

Postby Danny » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:41 pm

Ignoritus wrote:If they were using a proxy, it was the proxy that was banned, not the natural IP. They can still join and post if they re-register with that natural IP. I don't see anything wrong with having a non-anonymity rule. The only issue I see is that it's not properly advertised.
In his defense.

<Sundowner> I use a VPN because I use a school laptop with those retarded filters :/

If his school laptop has web restrictions, then he, and I thought this would be obvious, would have to use a VPN to bypass the web restrictions. That's the whole point of him using the VPN in the first place.
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Re: Complaint

Postby Kyo » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:45 pm

GhostHawk, you should unban michel as well.

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Re: Complaint

Postby BTB » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:46 pm

ghosthawk im tired of seeing that stupid fucking "if you dont like how things are done here leave" bullshit
if i didnt have friends that are only here, and we all had a place where we could all hang out as a group, id be outta this shithole
unfortunately that isnt the case, so i do want to stay here, but if things arent done well by the admin team we should have the right to fucking complain about them without being banned
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Re: Complaint

Postby GhostHawk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:47 pm

Kyo wrote:GhostHawk, you should unban michel as well.
I didn't ban him. He should be good to go.
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Re: Complaint

Postby Shadow Yoshi » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:51 pm

If I had to guess, GhostHawk probably said "you can leave" because he was tired of being constantly attacked by Pixels and friends.

EDIT: Also, the point I was trying to make earlier is that if you're using a proxy it's very likely you'll be viewed as more suspicious.

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Re: Complaint

Postby Bomber57 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:58 pm

Joey wrote:If I had to guess, GhostHawk probably said "you can leave" because he was tired of being constantly attacked by Pixels and friends.

EDIT: Also, the point I was trying to make earlier is that if you're using a proxy it's very likely you'll be viewed as more suspicious.
Except we aren't attacking him? We are literally just trying to fix this issue.
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Re: Complaint

Postby BTB » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:02 pm

i get using a proxy makes you more suspicious but its no reason for a ban
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Re: Complaint

Postby GhostHawk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:05 pm

BTB wrote:i get using a proxy makes you more suspicious but its no reason for a ban
But wouldn't you agree it's necessary to ban if that same IP was used to make two accounts then joins the IRC not too long after?
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Re: Complaint

Postby Kyo » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:06 pm

That wasn't an attack, but I can understand that what happened made things stressful for him. I think that's what Joey meant.

E: A verbal warning and kicking out all double accounts would be fine if you ask me. If this would be a frequent occurrence, then that'd be something different though.
Last edited by Kyo on Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Complaint

Postby GhostHawk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:07 pm

Kyo wrote:That wasn't an attack, but I can understand that what happened made things stressful for him. I think that's what Joey meant.
Not necessarily, and that wouldn't be an excuse to "direct people away," which was not at all my intention.
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Re: Complaint

Postby FanofSMBX » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:09 pm

I mean, where are people supposed to leave to? Knux's forum tanked after he hacked this one.

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Re: Complaint

Postby Shadow Yoshi » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:10 pm

We're not having that discussion.

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Re: Complaint

Postby BTB » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:14 pm

GhostHawk wrote:
BTB wrote:i get using a proxy makes you more suspicious but its no reason for a ban
But wouldn't you agree it's necessary to ban if that same IP was used to make two accounts then joins the IRC not too long after?
i dont know, i dont see much use in banning proxies anyhow
i mean as long as the user wasnt doing anything to break the rules, which in this case they werent
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Re: Complaint

Postby GhostHawk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:17 pm

Duplicate accounts are against the rules so the forum ban is sticking, on the IRC however I'll give it a shot since I think some of the arguments for that ban were fairly reasonable since there isn't a written rule about them.
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Re: Complaint

Postby michel » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:19 pm

GhostHawk wrote:Duplicate accounts are against the rules so the forum ban is sticking, on the IRC however I'll give it a shot since I think some of the arguments for that ban were fairly reasonable since there isn't a written rule about them.
There's no written rule against duplicate accounts either.
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Re: Complaint

Postby Danny » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:20 pm

First off, using a VPN shouldn't make you look suspicious at all. Just because spammers have taken up using them doesn't mean everybody that uses one should be targeted as a suspicious person.
Joey wrote:If I had to guess, GhostHawk probably said "you can leave" because he was tired of being constantly attacked by Pixels and friends.
Second, I find it fucking hilarious that Joey only seems to target either Pixels or michel, and then addresses anybody else (people he would give less of a shit to bother mentioning) as their friends. I have to ask what he has against them so much to feel the need to address them and make them out to be bad people, because quite frankly they aren't. And they aren't doing anything wrong or bad.
Joey wrote:We're not having that discussion.
And why not? Can you give us an actual reason other than just a simple sentence to push it away?
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Re: Complaint

Postby GhostHawk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:20 pm

michel wrote:
GhostHawk wrote:Duplicate accounts are against the rules so the forum ban is sticking, on the IRC however I'll give it a shot since I think some of the arguments for that ban were fairly reasonable since there isn't a written rule about them.
There's no written rule against duplicate accounts either.
Joey wrote:4. MISCELLANEOUS OTHER RULES: Do not backseat moderate; the mods and the rest of the staff can do their jobs well, that's why they're here. There is a "Report" button on each post for alerting moderators of something you think violates the rules. Please also refrain from making multiple accounts.

The forum staff maintains the right to enforce the rules at their discretion. Any decision they make is final; if you believe a staff member is not doing their job, contact one of the administrators.
Please read them again.
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