M47 Host Sign-ups (POLL Round 2)

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Which game do you want to play for M47?

Poll ended at Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:00 pm

The Burning Bells of Salem - Warlock
6
67%
Big Trouble in Little Mafia Town - Danny
0
No votes
PixelPest - O, My Reputation
3
33%
 
Total votes: 9
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby thehelmetguy1 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:16 pm

Godammit, I just noticed that I posted an outdated version of the game
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Danny » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:17 pm

PixelPest wrote:
Danny wrote:...this hasn't even been a legitimate problem...

Because games lately from what I've seen have always had these kinds of roles.

I mean the whole notion that people are going to recklessly kill innocents hasn't even been a legitimate problem. As far as I am concerned, no one has done this, so what excuse is there to make vigilante roles like this?

PixelPest wrote:Also considering game-banning someone for misusing their ability is over-the-top for sure

It's a consequence that comes with reckless actions. If you're driving a car recklessly, you're going to get fined for it, so if you're going to play this game recklessly, you have to expect consequences. Instilling artificial consequences by restricting features of the role/game mechanic when a slip-up happens will not put an end to any alleged recklessness that exists, it just slows it down. You can't sugarcoat and pad everything, if you want people to start taking the game seriously, you need to enforce rules that make them play seriously, and that comes in the form of consequences such as game bans for reckless behavior, and this extends past just misusing an ability. Remember when there were a few users given game bans recently because their playstyle (or lack thereof) proved incredibly reckless and troublesome?
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Mosaic » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:29 pm

Electriking wrote:They could have decided to put Mafia on hiatus you know, so be glad that the GMs did not go that far.


Just going to add they could have went even further and just closed mafia down for good.
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Electriking » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:02 am

Danny wrote:
PixelPest wrote:
Danny wrote:Why do we have to create vigilante roles that get punished for killing an innocent? What good does this do?

Dissuades a person with that role from killing recklessly

But realistically, a town-aligned killing role, the vigilante in this case, would have it in their best interests not to kill off random innocent people recklessly. Regardless, this hasn't even been a legitimate problem, so people need to knock off the overused excuses and come to terms that they're idiot-proofing their games because there's that .1% chance that somebody is going to go on a reckless killing spree, which need I remind you hasn't even happened yet, at least not that I've been aware of in my close observations of games. If that were to happen, the integrity of that player's worth should be questioned, and the discussion should be held about whether or not they should be allowed to continue to play the game, because that's along the same lines as throwing the game, and I'm sure that's already against self-contained rules.

The vigilante should not need punishments because they should know not to kill every night. The reason Vigilantes going on a killing spree has not been a problem is because it isn't. It is only playing the game badly and just potentially cause or contribute to the town losing. It should be in the interest of the town to stop the vigilante from killing like that if it does happen. And no, not knowing how to use a role or playing badly is not a reason to ban players from the game as it is counter-productive and does not encourage one to improve, it just discouages them from playing in the future and also puts off new players from starting to play, which with the current activity, is a completely wrong thing to do. And misuse of an ability is not really game throwing, it is just playing badly. Game throwing is revealing information or doing things to deliberately shorten the game because they give up. Bad role usage such as going on a killing spree as vigilante might not just be them thinking that is what to do. If they fail to use a role properly then they will be notified by their team and if they ignore it, then the host alway has the option to ant about it in the player analysis. If the vigilante is deliberately killing to and consciously trying to shorten the game, then it could be counted as game throwing but that would be hard to verify. But punishing for playing badly will only discourage them to continue and try to improve.
Mosaic wrote:
Electriking wrote:They could have decided to put Mafia on hiatus you know, so be glad that the GMs did not go that far.


Just going to add they could have went even further and just closed mafia down for good.

I don't think they would go that far. They probably would only do this if there is a big problem in SMBX Mafia that has had several attempts to be solved but all failed ad it is decided that there is no hope in solving it.
Last edited by Electriking on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby thehelmetguy1 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:07 am

Reckless players should never be gamebanned. It is everything but productive. Electricking explained why this is a horrible idea. It doesn't help them improve, and it discourages people from playing.
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Danny » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:49 am

Reckless players should never be game banned? This is a lot of hypocrisy coming from the people the spewed on about how much they wanted someone like Noodle banned from the game. Reckless players hurt the integrity of the game and make it not fun for everyone else, saying they should go unpunished is ridiculous.

By the way, good job in derailing the argument. The initial complaint was the existence of punishing the Vigilante role by removing their killing ability or what have you when they kill an innocent, and how it serves absolutely no purpose. If people are agreeing that it does indeed serve no purpose, then there's no fuss to be had and people are grasping at straws to form an argument, in this case, the whole game banning thing that you're suddenly going on about.
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby thehelmetguy1 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:03 am

In a note, Noodle did not deserve any punishment that he got by playing badly in mafia. His gamebans were completely unwarranted. Although the conversation did get out of topic.
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby 116taj » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:05 pm

Mafia 47: The Assassination
- 16 Players
- Cardflip
- Public Voting
Mafia
- Must equal or outnumber the town and kill the assassin.
Godfather
Cardflips green upon inspection and death.
Vengeful Mafioso
Takes down whoever votes him last if lynched, or takes down whoever kills him at night.
Consort
Can roleblock a player once per night.

Town
- Must eliminate the Mafia and Assassin to win.
Mayor
Can use one of these abilities once per night:
- Can inspect a player
- Can protect a player (Can also self protect once)
- Can change the next night and day to roleflip once during the game
Lynch votes count as double.
Sheriff
Can inspect a player once a night.
Doctor
Can protect a player once per night.
Vigilante
Can kill a player once per night.
Doublevoter
Votes count as double. Unaware they are the doublevoter.
Townie
Townie
Townie
Zerovoter
Votes count as zero. Unaware they are the zerovoter.
Miller
Flips red. Unaware they are the miller.
Millwright
Flips orange. Unaware they are the millwright.

Third Party
- Must kill the Mayor to win
Assassin
Can inspect a player once per night. Alternatively, can once in the game try and kill the mayor. This attack goes through protection. If he does not kill the Mayor, he instantly loses and dies.

Changelog:
Mayor loses the ability to send an anonymous message
Mayor can now change the game to roleflip for a while
Removed propagandist

PixelPest wrote:Approved!


Pseudo wrote:Looks cool, approved!


Witchking666 wrote:Kewl, approved!
Last edited by 116taj on Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Paper » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:06 pm

This whole argument about the vig being restricted from nightkilling if he kills an innocent is a little ridiculous.

Yea, vigilantes recklessly killing townies has never been a problem, but that's not the only reason the feature is there.
If the vig knows that they're going to get punished for killing an innocent, it forces them to be more careful and strategic in their decision making, and most of the time, when a Vig kills an innocent, it's by accident. If a Vig decides to keep recklessly killing people without knowing whether they're innocent or not, regardless of any penalties they might incur, that's their own fault, not the game's.

tl;dr Vigs killing recklessly isn't the problem, the feature keeps the game in balance, and if you're a Vig, just don't be a moron.

Also, on a quasi-related note, ad hominem attacks don't help anyone's cases. Not really directed at anyone in particular, but please, just stop.

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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Danny » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:14 pm

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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby PixelPest » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:12 am

Pretty sure I've reviewed everyone's games up to this point

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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Warlock » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:17 pm

PixelPest wrote:Over 5 phases the Oracle only has a 5.12% chance of winning (assuming I calculated it correctly) and whether I did or not it's extremely low and unfairly so.Otherwise seems okay


Changed the Oracle's win condition.
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Paper » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:34 pm

If any of the Game Masters are wondering why I edited my game post after it was reviewed, I noticed the game number was wrong and found some grammar issues. That's all.

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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby PixelPest » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:58 pm

M47?: O, My Reputation
(Cardflip / 16 Players)

The Mafia
Spokesman: Can make a player lose or gain two reputation each Night (but not their own). Can collaborate with the other Mafia members to kill one player each Night. Starts with +1 reputation.
Alleyrat: Can collaborate with the other Mafia members to kill one player each Night. Starts with -1 reputation.
Chemist: Can roleblock a player each Night. That player's colour will also be black for that Night and the following Day. Can collaborate with the other Mafia members to kill one player each Night. Starts with zero reputation.

The Town
Spokesman: Can make a player lose or gain two reputation each Night (but not their own). Starts with +1 reputation.
Sheriff: Can inspect a player to find out their colour each Night. Starts with +1 reputation.
Bounty Hunter: Can kill one player each Night. Starts with -1 reputation and will lose three reputation for killing a Town special, one for killing another Town member, and gain two reputation for killing any other player. If their reputation is zero or less they will flip red. Cannot be killed by having low (-6) reputation.
Narcissist: Starts with 0 reputation and will gain one reputation per Night, however any losses to reputation will be doubled.
Reputable Townie: Starts with +1 reputation. Thinks that they are a normal Townie.
Townie: Starts with zero reputation.
Townie
Townie
Townie
Townie
Townie

Slob: Starts with -1 reputation. Thinks that they are a normal Townie.

Third Party
Media Master: Can increase a player's reputation by three each Night (but not their own). Immune to Nightkills. Chooses a player at the beginning of the game and steals victory if that player's team wins at the end of the game, given that their own reputation is greater than or equal to zero. Starts with zero reputation.

Mechanics
  • Normal Mafia Win Conditions, except the Third Party will steal victory from the team at the end of the game that they allied with, as long as their reputation is greater than or equal to zero.
  • Reputation: Each player starts with a reputation which can be increased and decreased by various things. If their reputation is -3 or lower and they have an ability, they will be unable to use it. If their reputation is -6 they will be automatically killed. However, if their reputation is +3 or higher their vote will count for two instead of one and if their reputation is +5 or higher they will be able to perform one additional action on a following Night (even if their reputation drops), once per game, either (1) inspect a player at Night to find their colour or (2) protect a player at Night from any Nightkills (including themselves). Each player only gets one use of one chosen additional ability per game, even if their reputation hits +5 or higher more than once. The following will increase a player's reputation:
    • Voting for a player during the Day that is successfully Lynched at the end of the phase, given that the Lynched player is Mafia or Third Party. (+1)
    • Being the first one to vote for a player during the Day that is successfully Lynched at the end of the phase, given that the Lynched player is Mafia or Third Party. (+3)
    The following will decrease a player's reputation:
    • Not voting during the Day. (-1)
    • Not using an ability during the Night if the player has one (with the exception of the Bounty Hunter). (-2)
    • Voting for a player during the Day that is successfully Lynched at the end of the phase, given that the Lynched player is of the same team of the voter. Mafia members will not lose reputation for voting for another Mafia member. (-1)

Pseudo wrote:How does the Media Master get anything done? I suspect you meant for it to decrease players' reputation by 3 as opposed to increasing it, which would be fine. As it is, its ability kind of seems useless although it still has a path to victory as a survivor type of role.
I would strongly recommend adding some reward for having a high reputation, such as getting double votes or something small but impactful like that. Right now it doesn't seem like there's much incentive to increase your reputation unless it's dangerously low, especially if you're a normal townie.
I'm a big fan of the concept, though.


Witchking666 wrote:Im loving the rep mechanic here too. Approved!

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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Paper » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:08 pm

PixelPest wrote:The following will increase a player's reputation:
  • Voting for a player during the Day that is successfully Lynched at the end of the phase, given that the Lynched player is Mafia or Third Party. (+1)
  • Being the first one to vote for a player during the Day that is successfully Lynched at the end of the phase, given that the Lynched player is Mafia or Third Party. (+3)

PixelPest wrote:Mafia members will not lose reputation for voting for another Mafia member.


Could the Mafia have a plan where they sacrifice one of their own members (someone who would probably get lynched anyway based on how the game goes, idk) in order to gain reputation? Or would nothing happen?

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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby PixelPest » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:21 pm

If they really wanted to sure but it'd make it significantly more difficult to win and setting that up without looking suspicious would be difficult in itself

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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Pseudo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:57 am

Oh heck I've gotta review, I'll do it tomorrow morning. Been traveling all day...
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Pseudo » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:36 am

I've reviewed all games, sorry again for the wait
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Cedur » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:37 am

Given witchking being busy (he requested to be subbed out of my game at EData's server), can we proceed to the polls with only Pseudo's and Pixel's reviews?
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Re: M47 Host Sign-ups

Postby Mosaic » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:04 am

Pseudo wrote:When can the Medic visit someone to heal poison, is it only on the night that the player is poisoned, only on the night the player would die, or both?
If it's the latter the role is basically a worse serial killer (since the Medic has more chances to heal), for what it's worth

They only get stopped if the medic visits their poisoned targeted the SAME NIGHT.
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