M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby SAStar777 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:55 am

TheLoafLord wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:43 am
I had a feeling Eltriking killed me.

Was I getting too close to finding out?
My guess is that you accidentally tricked him into thinking you're a special when you said that Cedur claimed to you.
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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:19 am

My claim of targeting SAStar777 was not RNG. I used R G as an excuse to lunch someone that I had a hunch of being scum. I took a 50/50 chance between SAStar777 and TheHelemtGuy01.

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby TheLoafLord » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:25 am

That game wasn't the greatest, a mass townie genocide happened because everyone kept overanalysing things (AHEM jumping on bandwagons last COUGH COUGH).

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby SAStar777 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:49 am

MECHDRAGON777 wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:19 am
My claim of targeting SAStar777 was not RNG. I used R G as an excuse to lunch someone that I had a hunch of being scum. I took a 50/50 chance between SAStar777 and TheHelemtGuy01.
Uh...what? So...you DIDN'T summon RNGesus before voting me and already had that one reason involving Helmet and I? (When you first voted me, you said it was a random vote, before saying the other reason.)
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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:01 am

SAStar777 wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:49 am
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:19 am
My claim of targeting SAStar777 was not RNG. I used R G as an excuse to lunch someone that I had a hunch of being scum. I took a 50/50 chance between SAStar777 and TheHelemtGuy01.
Uh...what? So...you DIDN'T summon RNGesus before voting me and already had that one reason involving Helmet and I? (When you first voted me, you said it was a random vote, before saying the other reason.)
I just took a random guess between you two.

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby Taycamgame » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:46 am

This game went well, apart from the fact i was a little inactive during the middle.
Also:
PixelPest wrote:The Town celebrated by burning all of the memes in the town square, along with all of the books of law, writing a new set of legislation to establish all people as equal, despite what their reputation may have been before. Sooner than later chaos broke out, anarchy reigned, and everyone perished, which wasn't more than...two people.
Nice Article 13 reference :)
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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby glitch4 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:56 am

I still love you guys. This was a great game, altho the playing was not what it supposed to be impressive, we took the W at the far end and I'm very glad about that.

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby Thehelmetguy1 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:00 am

Time to add to the rant. So, the game was quite scaled towards the town in the end(As explained by Mosaic), and well, I actually thought I wasn't gonna win as TP when I got the role. In any case, let's see the town's bad decisions throughout the game and why they didn't deserve to win.

We begin at day 1. People suspect Mechdragon even though he could easily hold that info for himself and avoid suspicion entirely. That was the smallest offense though.

In day 2 taj literally got lynched because cedur didn't like his wording. I have no idea of how he was seen as more suspicious than sastar. "But he was mafia". I don't care. It doesn't justify nor change the fact that it wasn't well thought.

Then we go to day 3. Mosaic gets lynched for being the last bandwagon voter. All right. Let me ask you a question. What were you folks thinking!? And I couldn't care less if he was mafia. That was sheer luck and a garbage reason to lynch someone. Now if I vote last I am mafia!? Give me a break. And guess what happens next? SAStar proceeds to do the most punchable post that I have ever seen in mafia:
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I was suspected for having brain cells and believing mosaic's lynch was dumb. And SAStar, the answer to your punchable question was in front of you so that post was completely unecessary. And I also didn't really appreciate the fact that you kept bringing mosaic's lynch up a bunch of times as if it was possible to justify it.

Time to do a townie genocide. Wait that didn't work?

And then Electriking somehow thought that killing taycam was a good idea even though he could kill SAstar(Who was already suspecting him for whatever reason I have no idea of, how surprising), get glitch to vote taycam, and there you go.

Put it simple: The town sucked.
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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby Cedur » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:37 pm

I'm sorry for being late here but I finally want to post in response to the things said. I already told in chat that I knew SaStar to be town and special since Night 2 and thus since the town deemed him most suspicious I had to safe him somehow. Knowing about Radiance's and glitch4's innocence and knowing that they previously already managed to save SaStar by lynching someone else instead, I tried to gather as much information as possible from the prior votes and the bandwagon swift on Mech.

Besides the people confirmed innocent, there was really not anyone to clearly point fingers at. The best thing I could think of was that some of the next non-confirmed Mech voters could be mafia, as they just used the chance to bandwagon along or the like. It was a mere theory and a read, and hey, it worked this time, do I have to account for that? Reads are a thing and a core part of the game. I refer to Warlock's saying, "in early game any lead is a good enough lead". As I said, SaStar needed to be saved at all costs, and I thought that no matter what we'd do together he'd be implied as special anyway. As I said on chat it came down to a good 8 people to choose. I could have been wrong, in which case it could still have delivered some useful info, and being in the right even delivered more info, and I was confident about Taycamgame and Theloaflord being innocent. I delivered so much material to the town that the following days were process of elimination. Does that mean that I did too much work or the like?

Of course, it was a big surprise that town still hadn't won after lynching Oshi, which was because I said that Electriking and Mosaic couldn't be mafia together as Electriking voted Mosaic while the lynch was completely open. After I already did this with SaStar M51, I should start taking things with more grains of salt, right? It also happened in M40 late-game, remember? Let me quote this from MafiaScum Wiki:
Bussing works because (if done correctly) it distances the players doing it to each other sufficiently that nobody (or at least, nobody but the smartest players) will ever suspect that they are both scum in the same faction. The reasoning applies that if the bussee is actually lynched; the busser is considered to be obviously pro-town. Because, of course, why would a Mafia member try to get his own scum partner lynched? And thus, WIFOM ensues.

Another informative source: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... p_Bussing!

Anyway, to the point of early play. Remember how before the shutdown it was all about townspeople not having any bit of courage and not showing engagement on offensive scumhunting and being way too defensive and timid instead, hence the inactivity. People didn't want to take the risk of killing someone off out of the blue unless there was a very good reason, and thus there was never a good reason. We got to redress that state for the most part now, and now it seems like RNG voting is frowned upon. We know that first D1 votes need to be like that, and can there be a big difference between intuition and randomness already? Does it make a difference if I say "[name] for D1 randomness" or "[name] sounds like a femme fatale for me"? We know that these first votes aren't meant to be serious, yet they are needed to get discussion going and to push the mafia out of their comfort zone. Any other idea how to do that? Lynching is the most important tool for town to kill off scum, and oftentimes the only one at that. See also https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21947 for example.

In response to the game concept, I even thought that the reputation system brought more hindrances to the town if anything; mafia and TP never could lose rep from any lynches (except for not voting), both the consort and spokesman started at +1 rep so it was very unlikely for them to drop below -2 and be roleblocked, the dumpster diver was immune to that anyway; on the other hand it was a long way for most townspeople to actually reach +5 rep and get to use an ability once.

To conclude this response, I agree that some mistakes have been made in this game and situations that you had wished would have gone different (mostly the bussing part), but the levels of salt don't do us any favor. Mistakes and unwise choices are also a core part of the game; if there were no mistakes there wouldn't be any sense to do the game.
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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby TheLoafLord » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:05 am

Late post but I want to share my (Albeit shallow.) thoughts.

First, I only suggest using RNG in one of two situations:

  • It's first night without any leads.
  • The world is about to be smashed by a giant ball of hydrogen in 2 minutes, which in that case, I suggest you stop sitting on your computer playing a mafia game.
Even if it's first night, I would still avoid it. I did it first night, but I was playing it safe. A special dies night one, so whoopie, first sign of a rapid decline down hill. First day rolls around, and SURPRISE SURPRISE everyone mistakens MECHDRAGON777, leading to a widespread 'suspicion'. In fact, MECH was referring to actions taken in the pre-game. So that clears up suspicion, right? Apparently not. Everyone jumps on top of MECH, as they desperately explain their innocence. No one listens, and then...

MECHDRAON777 has been Lynched!

Things only get worse.

Radiance, the mouth piece, dies. Day two rolls around, and the most notorious event (I would go as far to say the most notorious in history.) of the mafia game occurs:

krazykat wrote:Late bandwagoners are suspicious

And then more chaos erupts, AND THEN MORE PEOPLE REINFORCE THE HORRIFIC 'LATE BANDWAGONER' SUSPICION. Mosiac gets pulled into the chaos, after SAStar truly blows up the scene. AND OH MY GOD, ELECTRIKING HAS BEEN TAKEN BY THE 'LATE BANDWAGONER' PLAGUE TOO, AND VOTES FOR MOSIAC AS WELL. The scene absolutely blows to smithereens, and Mosa-... taj gets killed...? What? Ok, well it's good that Mosiac escaped such an unfair bandwagon, but now we're voting for taj because he explained how stupid SAStar and krazykat's whole 'late bandwagoner' thing was? That's not suspicious, it's common sense. Sure, taj was mafia, but that was luck. 2 things to say about this portion of the game:

  • For god sake, never, ever pull off that 'late bandwagoner' thing again.
  • Don't point fingers if you have literally no supporting evidence.

Anyways. SAStar, even though being a townie, made very very, well, controversial posts, constantly becoming the target of bandwagons. Somehow, by miracles and diversions, he escaped all 3 bandwagons he found himself in. My word to you? Please, be more careful with your wording. Day 3! Let's start with a bit of confidenc- OH FOR GOD SAKE, 2 SPECIALS DIE. CEDUR, THE MOUTH-PIECE, AND NANAYA THE INACTIVE. This game just gets worse and worse, doesn't it? Fine, let's just get the day on wit-

OH GOD, THE 'LATE BANDWAGONER' PLAGUE HAS RETURNED AND IT'S REALLY HUNGRY.

Mosiac isn't safe. Everyone targets him on really half baked logic, because apparently voting last is suspicious.

Mosiac dies, but they're mafia? Coincidence. You guys had no real evidence, you just voted him because apparently voting last is a really bad thing and anyone who votes last should instantly be executed for doing such a horrible crime.

thg1, after using common sense to protect a stupid bandwagon related incident of which I won't mention because I've said it way too much, gets killed. thg1 was third party, by the way. Guess what? I get killled too! After explaining how the vigi (Cedur) died, apparently something about that was super suspicious. I don't know...? I'm not salty about it, though. Totally, right? Only joking, I'm not.

This is when the game boiled down. And the final mafioso, Electriking, made some pretty silly decisions. But I'll get to that later. Because right now, we've got bigger fish to catch:

The insta of ShadowStarX. Yet another townie absolutely butchered. Apparently it looked like he was working with Mosiac and thg1, even though they were only just voting for SAStar because of his suspicious acts. SAStar constantly thought everyone was pushing him, when, in a hypocritical turn of fates, he was the one virtually pushing everyone else, whether it was intended or not. That god damn 'late bandwagoner' thing really annoyed the crap out of me, you know?

ShadowStarX, another logic user, gets lynched. We move on to Night 5, and krazykat dies. Cool, I guess? Anyways. Onto Day 5...

Let's hope things go wel- OH MY GOD OSHI HAS DIED, YET ANOTHER TOWNIE GETS THROWN INTO THE FIRE. Jesus Christ, this game's gonna turn into a lawsuit gun-fight with the amount of manslaughter going on. Night 6 starts...

And this is where Electriking makes 2 massive mistakes:

  • Instead of killing SAStar, the most logical route, he instead kills Taycamgame. This was a bad move because: Taycamgame was not the mouthpiece, therefore killing Taycamgame allows the mouthpiece, aka SAStar, to instantly win over the trust of glitch4 then resulting in the death of Electriking. Killing SAStar would make sense: if glitch4 is confirmed slob at that point, you can really easily slap a false claim on Taycamgame, after all, he was a tad suspicious. He was the least active, seemed easily manipulable on purpose, following the crowd almost suspiciously. Say that, win over Glitch4, then lynch Taycamgame. Taycamgame flips green, and Glitch4 is instantly doomed.
The second mistake:

  • You made it way too obvious that you killed Taycamgame. You kept targeting him right before the night, and then bam, he's dead. Gee, I wonder who did that, I don't know, Stevie Wonder?

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And then the final players, Glitch4 and SAStar, finally realised the final mafia was right under their noses. And this brought an end to a long, painful game of stupid suspicions and an overall low amount of players using logic.

Then again, I'm a first timer.

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby zioy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:13 pm

TheLoafLord wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:05 am
the most notorious event (I would go as far to say the most notorious in history.) of the mafia game occurs:
krazykat wrote:Late bandwagoners are suspicious
While the strategy was generally terrible in this game, it had NOTHING TO DO with this (and I didn't even vote for a late bandwagoner in the post where I said that, I voted for someone completely different for a completely different reason). This game sucked because the midgame to the endgame was basically just the town spinning a wheel for the "most suspicious" remaining player to lynch instead of actually finding real leads. I get that you're new to the game and all, but considering you acted pretty suspicious yourself and didn't do anything to stop the oh so terrible "late bandwagoner" bandwagons during the actual course of the game, you don't really have any reason to be complaining about it.

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby TheLoafLord » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:30 pm

krazykat wrote:and didn't do anything to stop the oh so terrible "late bandwagoner" bandwagons
I pointed out how stupid it was but I didn't intervene because it was being made pretty obvious those with logic get fed to cowplants (They die.).

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby zioy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:47 pm

You're being so cynical about something that you could have affected if it were that bad, and either way town won. Wheel of Lynch(tm) and whatever trying-to-not-lynch-a-blue-is-apparently-a-bad-thing bs people wanna spread aside. Did the game suck? yeah. Are people barking up the wrong side of why it sucked? also yeah.

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby TheLoafLord » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:18 am

The entire game was literally eaten alive from the whole Bandwagoner incident, with multiple people (I think 4?) being unfairly lynched for standing up against the concept and being the last to jump on bandwagons.

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby Cedur » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:23 am

TheLoafLord, have you even read my above post explaining how SaStar survived and why the later day phases turned out to be process of elimination? And people still tried to lynch the person they deemed most suspicious first, right?
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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby TheLoafLord » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:29 am

Yes, I knew he was a townie. I knew why SAStar kept narrowly escaping, it was just the way he was talking and the things he came up with made him really bloody suspicious for those who didn't know he was town aligned.

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:30 am

I would also like to point out that my "RNG vote on SAStar777" was not actually RNG at all, I just said it was "RNG" to not look suspicious.

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Re: M52: O, My Reputation (POSTGAME)

Postby TheLoafLord » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:32 am

MECHDRAGON777 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:30 am
I would also like to point out that my "RNG vote on SAStar777" was not actually RNG at all, I just said it was "RNG" to not look suspicious.
Understandable, some people to do that to play it safe.


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