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Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:15 am
by Valtteri
Scores aren't entirely necessary, no, but surely you can agree that they help give a quick and easy understanding of how the reviewer liked the level. Giving numbers/stars is very commonplace in movie reviews and book reviews etc. The lack of scores wasn't the main problem with AeroMatter's reviews anyway. I told him it was the superficiality; the lack of content. Everyone else goes into much greater detail in their reviews.

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:43 pm
by Aero
Movie and book scores aren't that good either, and are contested by critics about their use to judge work. And everyone adds unimportant fluff in their reviews like this, not more detail:
It's hard to truly judge this as a level for it's just a boss fight, so maybe we should add a section for people to share their boss fights with everyone and maybe review the boss levels there in that thread.

As far as visuals you used what you're limited too, but having this fight take place in a Paper Mario Atmosphere would do this level more justice than having it simply take place in an SMW castle. Honestly if you changed the setting to a ghost house or a haunted/dark area (a forest, mansion, a mountain at night, etc) then the atmosphere would be awesome. The music in the first section was pretty nice and fitting. I think you did a nice job with the events to keep things more interesting with each fight, but this fight is pretty difficult with the amount of power ups given and with you having to fight three of them. This brings me to my next complaint, the whole second section is really difficult with chasing koopas as resources and Beldam replacing Wart. It becomes too much for the player, and it's generally frustrating because then you have to deal with fighting the first two bosses again, hoping you can spare the extra mushroom. So this isn't a bad boss level, but I think you could make this pretty legit. You could probably enhance this boss fight into a whole level if you're wiling to.

3.9/10

Moved to Average
This review could have been rewritten with two sentences and communicated the same point:

"Honestly if you changed the setting to a ghost house or a haunted/dark area (a forest, mansion, a mountain at night, etc) then the atmosphere would be awesome. The events you made let the fights become interesting, however you could add some more power ups to balance the heightened difficulty."

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:51 pm
by WindyDelcarlo
Honestly, I'm not convinced that most of that needs to be cut. For example, you cut an entire sentence about the music fitting the level

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:19 pm
by Aero
That's a non-statement that could be said about every level that has next to nothing to do with the quality of the level. Notice how it's a simple stand alone sentence that just makes the post longer. It's like if someone made an SMB3 level and selected SMB3 Overworld and a judge said "yeah man, very fitting music choice."
Alrighty so your graphics are pretty good, but throughout the level there's cutoff with some of the pipes. I also recommend recoloring the piranha plants and maybe even the goombas, but the piranha plant's color stood out more as unfitting to the level environment. The smb1 visuals are relatively limited, but you made do with what you had and you utilized them pretty well. I felt like I was playing an smb1 level, so I commend on creating that kind of atmosphere. The game play was really simple, and it was left relatively bland. Linear levels can be very enjoyable, but you need add more to create a greater challenge that the player can enjoy. The level doesn't have to be super difficult by any means, but anything that gets the player thinking and/or doing more than moving through the level is good if done right. The piranha plants could've been utilized more, and you could probably use another piranha species if you're willing to, just make sure not to spam. The poison mushrooms were a decent touch, but the last one towards the end of the level has no purpose being there. If it's harder to actually touch the poison mushroom than to avoid it then you're not doing something right. I will say the level length is pretty fair, and there's no need for a checkpoint so that's nice. Lastly the glaring issue is you have a lot of blocks placed too high. I was able to barely get up there as Luigi, who has the highest jump, so lowering them will help your level out. So overall this isn't a bad level, but it doesn't have that replayability yet.

4.5/10


Moved to Average
Getting how this can be made into two/three sentences yet?

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:55 pm
by WindyDelcarlo
AeroMatter wrote:The game play was really simple, and it was left relatively bland. The piranha plants could've been utilized more, and you could probably use another piranha species if you're willing to, just make sure not to spam. Lastly the glaring issue is you have a lot of blocks placed too high. I was able to barely get up there as Luigi, who has the highest jump, so lowering them will help your level out.
Keep in mind, this is what you just wrote in comparison to the previous review. After the first sentence, I wonder what made you think that the level was bland. How should this be fixed? The last two sentences make sense, but the end result of this description is that this level has no upside.
Using description and explanation allows you to look into both the positives and negatives of a level, and give a full impression of how the level looks. So, yes, you could write it in 3 sentences, but doing so misses details that could be important from both the side of the creator ("What was done correctly and what can I fix?") and the judge ("Is there anything I may have missed?")

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:44 pm
by Aero
WindyDelcarlo wrote:After the first sentence, I wonder what made you think that the level was bland. How should this be fixed?
Yeah you would but in the review that's where the point ends before a tangent about linear levels. I didn't play the level so I can't fill in the blank with more details, but you basically made my point here because nothing explained this critique but there's extra wording in between that hides this as if it was a detailed review.
WindyDelcarlo wrote:The last two sentences make sense, but the end result of this description is that this level has no upside.
The only positive thing said in the review was that the graphics were good and a check point wasn't needed. Unless there's clearly bad looking graphics this doesn't effect the level unless you're the nit picky type which is a different discussion anyway. This literally just happened with Linik's review and my review in ZM's level thread. Maybe there are some good things about the level, but abstractions took a priority in the review.
WindyDelcarlo wrote:Using description and explanation allows you to look into both the positives and negatives of a level, and give a full impression of how the level looks. So, yes, you could write it in 3 sentences, but doing so misses details that could be important from both the side of the creator ("What was done correctly and what can I fix?") and the judge ("Is there anything I may have missed?")
I'm not anti-elaboration. I'm going after the fluff that doesn't address specifically what you mentioned. I don't see how statements like "The level doesn't have to be super difficult by any means, but anything that gets the player thinking and/or doing more than moving through the level is good if done right" answers either of the questions you mentioned because it doesn't say what to do to make the player think and "do more than move." The statements in green point to specific features of the level and explain what can be done with them to improve the level, such as with the piranha plants vs poison mushrooms where one explains what the creator can do with the piranha plants and the other is a non-specific idea about how poison mushrooms could be used without any more information than how the reviewer thinks it ought to be like.

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:12 pm
by WindyDelcarlo
AeroMatter wrote:I didn't play the level so I can't fill in the blank with more details, but you basically made my point here because nothing explained this critique
Perhaps I've been misunderstanding your point the whole time. The problem I initially brought up is that, as far as the reviews of yours I've read, you don't fill in the blank with more details. I do think that it needs to be done, and I think that looking through another review and essentially rewriting it isn't a way to show your point.
AeroMatter wrote:it doesn't say what to do to make the player think and "do more than move."
The thing here is that it has the description saying that it should be looked at. "bland" as in your rewrite could mean any number of other things, whereas in the original, the explanation is that the level needs to make players think and do more than move.

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:59 pm
by ShadowStarX
Spinda wrote:But I mean with the removal of rating subforums is there really a need for numerical scores?
IMO: no.
It's quite enough to say terrible, bad, mediocre, decent, good, great or amazing...

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:34 pm
by JupiHornet
ShadowStarX wrote:
Spinda wrote:But I mean with the removal of rating subforums is there really a need for numerical scores?
IMO: no.
It's quite enough to say terrible, bad, mediocre, decent, good, great or amazing...
But what's the difference between these words and scores? Scores are basically saying the same thing, but in the form of numbers instead of words.

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:51 pm
by Enjl
Scores are more difficult to make seem legit from the text part of the review. A lot of scores look like they're grabbed out of the blue. At the same time, one-word conclusions isn't what I'd particularly try to aim for either, since those too can be rather cryptic and contradictory at times.
Topping off a review where nothing but flaws are mentioned with "I liked the level, it's pretty good" raises questions, while saying "Despite its flaws, I enjoyed the level. It could be much better if you fixed the flaws, though." makes sense in context of the review.

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:47 pm
by CynicHost

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:37 pm
by Enjl
like i know this isn't gonna happen because mrdaniel borrowed his friend's levels but he's a legitimately good judge and it just shows that the "has to send in 2 levels" aspect of the rule is completely arbitrary and unnecessary
like yeah he took his friend's levels but be aware that he only did it because this system is not ideal for the sake of just selecting good judges and anyone who might not be that good at level design is gonna immediately fall through, regardless of whether or not their reviews are top-tier
mrdaniel for judge

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:45 pm
by PixelPest
Although is it good to have someone who is dishonest for a judge?

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:47 pm
by Enjl
he was dishonest because the system is garbage

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:48 pm
by Valtteri
Enjl wrote:he was dishonest because the system is garbage
Calm down please.

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:49 pm
by Enjl
I would appreciate it if you didn't focus on the word "garbage" but rather my actual point with my messages. You're making it look like having an opinion is completely useless in this community because all people do is jump on formalities.

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:52 pm
by Valtteri
I have already expressed why the requirement exists. You can get your point across without being rude. In fact it might even be listened more if you did.

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:56 pm
by Enjl
But only "might". Knowing the atmosphere around here it's not gonna happen either way.

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:58 pm
by PixelPest
Enjl wrote:he was dishonest because the system is garbage
It's still dishonesty and why should someone untrustworthy receive moderating capabilities?

Re: Level Judge Application

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:59 pm
by Enjl
PixelPest wrote:
Enjl wrote:he was dishonest because the system is garbage
It's still dishonesty and why should someone untrustworthy receive moderating capabilities?
Which is why I'm questioning your position since the dawn of time.