MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

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MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Sturg » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:29 am

This is a general feedback thread for MaGLX3 if you didn't know already.

Hey y'all.

With MaGLX3 (somewhat) creeping around the corner, I'd like to have this thread to contain general discussion to help prepare for it.

Please use this thread for the following:
  • Feedback
  • Criticisms
  • Questions
  • Concerns
  • Etc.
You are also free to PM me if you wish, and I'll try respond as soon as I can.

Please Keep Conversation Civil Yo!

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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:21 pm

My main concern is the forced NPC peice.
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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Sancles-Chan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:40 pm

Could we get a link to the doc so we could look over it one more time?

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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:56 pm

Sanct wrote:Could we get a link to the doc so we could look over it one more time?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l0B ... obilebasic

This should be global.
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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Sturg » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:46 pm

MECHDRAGON777 wrote:My main concern is the forced NPC peice.
Could you elaborate a little further as to why?

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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:03 pm

Sturg wrote:
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:My main concern is the forced NPC peice.
Could you elaborate a little further as to why?
It just feels like we are forced to use a specific NPC is all. It is the only reason I did not like the proposal honestly.

(Also, it felt a little much like MaGL2's box gimmick, but not as much so as the other two like this one.)
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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Enjl » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:07 pm

MECHDRAGON777 wrote:
Sturg wrote:
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:My main concern is the forced NPC peice.
Could you elaborate a little further as to why?
It just feels like we are forced to use a specific NPC is all. It is the only reason I did not like the proposal honestly.

(Also, it felt a little much like MaGL2's box gimmick, but not as much so as the other two like this one.)
But you get a choice of three different NPCs and aren't restricted to building your level solely around it. It's kind of the equivalent to deciding whether you want rexes or spinies in your level. You go with what works or what gives you inspiration.
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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby TLtimelord » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:59 pm

Enjl wrote:
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:
Sturg wrote:
Could you elaborate a little further as to why?
It just feels like we are forced to use a specific NPC is all. It is the only reason I did not like the proposal honestly.

(Also, it felt a little much like MaGL2's box gimmick, but not as much so as the other two like this one.)
But you get a choice of three different NPCs and aren't restricted to building your level solely around it. It's kind of the equivalent to deciding whether you want rexes or spinies in your level. You go with what works or what gives you inspiration.
I guess I'm a little confused. You are limited to only those three NPCs (by NPCs I'm guessing you mean enemies) or you have to use at least those three NPCs?

Also is there a name gimmick involved this time?
Electric gold our love with tender care
Hills of satin grass and maidens fair
Now she rides through the night on a silver storm
Sword in hand, our fate's torn
She's a sparrow of the dawn
Our love is born

-Flower Power, Greta Van Fleet

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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Enjl » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:11 pm

TLtimelord wrote:
Enjl wrote:
MECHDRAGON777 wrote: It just feels like we are forced to use a specific NPC is all. It is the only reason I did not like the proposal honestly.

(Also, it felt a little much like MaGL2's box gimmick, but not as much so as the other two like this one.)
But you get a choice of three different NPCs and aren't restricted to building your level solely around it. It's kind of the equivalent to deciding whether you want rexes or spinies in your level. You go with what works or what gives you inspiration.
I guess I'm a little confused. You are limited to only those three NPCs (by NPCs I'm guessing you mean enemies) or you have to use at least those three NPCs?

Also is there a name gimmick involved this time?
One of them, plus whatever else you want.
No naming gimmick.
Here's the proposal: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l0B ... nWilc/edit

Question: what's the point in splitting up difficulty if someone can choose hard but then decide to only choose from the other 4 categories?
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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:16 pm

TLtimelord wrote:
Enjl wrote:
MECHDRAGON777 wrote: It just feels like we are forced to use a specific NPC is all. It is the only reason I did not like the proposal honestly.

(Also, it felt a little much like MaGL2's box gimmick, but not as much so as the other two like this one.)
But you get a choice of three different NPCs and aren't restricted to building your level solely around it. It's kind of the equivalent to deciding whether you want rexes or spinies in your level. You go with what works or what gives you inspiration.
I guess I'm a little confused. You are limited to only those three NPCs (by NPCs I'm guessing you mean enemies) or you have to use at least those three NPCs?

Also is there a name gimmick involved this time?
Nope, but there is a weird gimmick I am not 100% fond of. I like it more than the naming gimmick though.Image This image is the bases of the gimick. You get a: Location, Thing, Adjective, and a NPC. You get three of each.
if you chose hard, you have to use two separate columns for Location. If I was given this instance, I would go for: Library, Firewall, Majestic, Springboard, and a Dungeon.
If I missed anything or said anything wrong, Sturg can correct this. Since Gimmick is ~20 points, that means four points for each thing if used well. Not including one would either lead to disqualification, or a loss of 4 points per category missing. So yeah, 20 points for not following the gimmick means a perfect score is a 100/120.

Edit: Ninja'ed by Enjl
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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Enjl » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:25 pm

MECHDRAGON777 wrote:Nope, but there is a weird gimmick I am not 100% fond of. I like it more than the naming gimmick though.Image This image is the bases of the gimick. You get a: Location, Thing, Adjective, and a NPC. You get three of each.
if you chose hard, you have to use two separate columns for Location. If I was given this instance, I would go for: Library, Firewall, Majestic, Springboard, and a Dungeon.
If I missed anything or said anything wrong, Sturg can correct this. Since Gimmick is ~20 points, that means four points for each thing if used well. Not including one would either lead to disqualification, or a loss of 4 points per category missing. So yeah, 20 points for not following the gimmick means a perfect score is a 100/120.
What? Where does it say disqualification????
And first you say "i have trouble with the npc part" (4 points) but now you attack all 5 categories suddenly? Be consistent in your argumentation please.
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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:49 pm

Enjl wrote:
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:Nope, but there is a weird gimmick I am not 100% fond of. I like it more than the naming gimmick though.Image This image is the bases of the gimick. You get a: Location, Thing, Adjective, and a NPC. You get three of each.
if you chose hard, you have to use two separate columns for Location. If I was given this instance, I would go for: Library, Firewall, Majestic, Springboard, and a Dungeon.
If I missed anything or said anything wrong, Sturg can correct this. Since Gimmick is ~20 points, that means four points for each thing if used well. Not including one would either lead to disqualification, or a loss of 4 points per category missing. So yeah, 20 points for not following the gimmick means a perfect score is a 100/120.
What? Where does it say disqualification????
And first you say "i have trouble with the npc part" (4 points) but now you attack all 5 categories suddenly? Be consistent in your argumentation please.
I am not a fan of the gimmick, but it at least is a good gimmick. I just hate the NPC part in particular.

Edit: The disqualification came from the discussion at the voting page.
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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Quantix » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:52 pm

Remind me, when does MAGLX3 start? Or is that not determined yet?
viewtopic.php?f=69&p=286856#p286855

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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:24 pm

Quantix wrote:Remind me, when does MAGLX3 start? Or is that not determined yet?
Not decided/determined yet. Should be after the judge selection and other stuff is done.
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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Sturg » Tue May 02, 2017 11:16 pm

Howdy, just got finished with finals.
Image
So let's get this ball sort of rolling.

ContentID
I'd prefer to restrict musical choice as little as possible here. I mean personally, music is a huge part of a level's personality that I feel it would discourage creativity. Although, many including raocow have mentioned concern towards this issue, as such there will be methods to prevent this. Obvious songs from pop culture/Nintendo/Capcom/Konami and the like will definitely be discouraged, but it'd probably be better if there weren't a repository or pool of music sources, as I feel that's too restricting. A warning within the rules of the contest will state that "a level's music may be asked to be changed by the creator if it conflicts with ContentID," which will hopefully reduce a good amount of issues.

Secondly, can Youtube ContentID a private video? I'm asking for the sake that if test videos are used to check for music matches, it can be done privately (If not, I have another method avoid spoiling songs, if people are actually concerned about that). Do note, however, that if this form of a process is done, it will very much likely delay the results/playable episode. Creators would need to change music and the tests themselves might take a bit.


2nd Gimmick Draft
A few have addressed some concerns regarding the gimmick, such as the NPC usage/difficulty. Having put some thought into it, I made a couple tweaks to the current gimmick. To help explain the gimmick again, here is another example:
Image

You pick one item from each list and try to implement it into your level. Depending on how well you do will change the amount of points you get from that list, with each list being 4 points.

Changes:
  • Diffiulties were taken out as it was troublesome deciding which words were harder than others, also since I've come to realize the difficulties were unnecessary.
  • The category "Object" has been replaced with the category "Verb," as I feel the term "object" is overly vague and too chaotic to manage fair judging. Plus, I just feel that this category would suit much better. Note that the Verbs should not be ending in "ing," that's just a little error in the image on my part.

Please note that for the NPC category, no one will be penalized for using other NPCs. This category only grades what you do with that specific NPC.

Also, note that if you make any graphical changes, .txt edits, or Lua alterations, there should still be some resemblance of the initial NPC in order to get points.

Lastly, it's been said already, but I'll mention it again: we'll have contestants, in a txt file or otherwise, say what they have used from the lists. They should not, however, have to explain why their implementation makes sense. I firmly believe that if an element is used well, it should not have to be mentioned and can be identified just from playing it.

Judge Selection Times/Method
Judges will be selected sometime during this Summer, depending on when the sample levels are finished. Again, it's been mentioned, but judges will be selected through a process of "application and audition." They will fill out a form, and then will be asked to judge a couple sample levels that will let me see your judging process. I thought a little about having a formal public vote, but I haven't eased in on the idea to be perfectly honest.
Quantix wrote:Remind me, when does MAGLX3 start? Or is that not determined yet?
There are a couple key things I'm waiting on before the contest can actually start, not to mention that judge selection could take a bit. I'd like to guess and say Q4 of 2017 though?

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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Enjl » Wed May 03, 2017 7:38 am

A little point of failure I can see is the definition of NPC. You semi-address this here in your post already, but it's unclear whether this refers to an NPC's AI or appearance. If it's appearance, there's a high chance people might focus on a reskinned other NPC, having the original AI take a backseat to the easier-to-use version.
One way to completely get rid of that ambiguity is working by NPC ID, though that can easily get unappealing to the creator. Another way is to keep the ambiguity and make sure the judges take both into account when determining how well-executed the use of the particular NPC was.
What do you have in mind for this?
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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » Wed May 03, 2017 8:15 am

Sturg wrote:ContentID
Yes, private and unlisted videos are also checked for copyright strikes. It is a bot that checks it after all.
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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Sturg » Wed May 03, 2017 3:55 pm

Enjl wrote:A little point of failure I can see is the definition of NPC. You semi-address this here in your post already, but it's unclear whether this refers to an NPC's AI or appearance. If it's appearance, there's a high chance people might focus on a reskinned other NPC, having the original AI take a backseat to the easier-to-use version.
One way to completely get rid of that ambiguity is working by NPC ID, though that can easily get unappealing to the creator. Another way is to keep the ambiguity and make sure the judges take both into account when determining how well-executed the use of the particular NPC was.
What do you have in mind for this?
The bolded stuff. Judging this category will take into account the implementation of the NPCs appearance and/or AI.

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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Sturg » Fri May 12, 2017 7:49 pm

Heyo, just a couple of quick questions for y'all, as I am curious about the general opinion of the current gimmick:

  1. Does the current gimmick feel a little too restricting or complicated with having to utilize five lists?
  2. Is there any list you feel needs tweaking and/or clarification?
  3. If you could get rid of any list, which one would it be?
I was generating the full lists today and became suspicious that the gimmick might be a bit overwhelming. Although it is only 1/6 of the total score, is being encouraged to use five different elements a little too much? Just fine?

I already have some alternative solutions in place to remedy the gimmick if the general opinion does sway heavily one way, so feel free to answer these openly.

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Re: MAGLX3 - Pre-Discussion/Feedback Thread

Postby Inspirited » Fri May 12, 2017 9:42 pm

I think Enjyl said on discord you dont HAVE to use the things you get, you'd just lose points if you dont. Some clarification on that would be nice.
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