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Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:59 am
by Enjl
Danny wrote:Help them with what, though? When you put it that way, you degrade people with the idea that they aren't doing any good, and would be much better if they followed guidelines employed by an elitist group. Advice is one thing, and I've seen it seldom handed out around here, but this sudden push to get everyone following the same rules and guidelines for building levels and what is considered the "proper" design flow is concerning. I've completely lost interest in anything involving SMBX solely for this purpose.
thanks for a great example on why moving forwards in a group is hard: ignorance.
If you told me the earth was flat, and I corrected you by using factual evidence and research, you would probably call me an elitist. Of course, game design is an evolving topic and the research done on the topic is vast, but fucking hell people have done research on what makes games fun and interesting.
If you're coming along and trying to tell me that possessing knowledge on a topic and trying to spread it is "elitist", I should call you elitist for assuming a position in which you're entitled to call other people elitist? No I shouldn't because then I'd be just using the word as wrongly as you are:

Elitism, "the belief that a society or system should be led by an elite", is a nice buzzword to pull out to defend you in your post, but if you think about it it completely contradicts anything people have said.
What you call "guidelines employed by an elitist group" is usually referred to research, as I said above. It's advice that people give to others to help them make more fun levels, because I don't know about you but I interact with many people who think their work would be negatively viewed by the community and thus struggle to release their work. And can you blame them? Some of the people here are some of the worst advice-givers ever, strongly adhering to their own abstract views and poorly communicating them to newcomers in an unhelpful and often plain rude way. But you don't call those guys "elitist" because their methods are what the community has done for years, right?

So you're basically defending unhelpful and hardly useful advice because people actually attempting to help using research and formulas that do work is scary, is what I'm reading here.

Small anecdote on "elitism":
Wouldn't an elitist try to hinder people from joining the "elite", as you put it? That would stop making it elite, breaking the entire system.
If you meant the research to be the "elite" which should "rule".... flat earth analogy from above.

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:13 pm
by Danny
Can I ask why you took this so personally? You're throwing out a lot of assumptions about what my viewpoints are, and every response you have made to any of my posts in the past month have been extremely close-minded. You are failing to see the issue from the viewpoints of other people, and are instead resorting to personal attacks and baseless accusations because of what, exactly?
If I made a long-winded response post to address all of the things I do like about these threads and all of the things I don't like about these threads in detail, no one would read them. If I make a summary, people are going to complain.

You have completely twisted and mangled what I meant by saying "guidelines employed by an elitist group", and if I were to explain what I meant by that, it would go completely off-topic and I would get more people hating on me than I already do at the moment. I know full well what elitism is as a concept, I know what it means as a word, and I know where to apply it in a sentence, so I didn't need someone to educate me on what it is as a whole. Thank you for that, though.

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:30 am
by Enjl
If you know when to use it then why does your usage of the word come over as so inappropriate? If you fling words and accusations around like that, at least have the decency to elaborate on what you mean.

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:18 pm
by superfido2
Well, this guide is about making levels just like Nintendo™ when we should be creating levels in new and fresh ways. Wasn't the purpose of SMBX to play and make levels in our own creative way? If we follow the Nintendo formula, levels wouldn't be distinct. Not to mention, we wouldn't have fun making them. Since there are so many guides on how to make a "good" level, it feels like as though us newbies have to make it this way, or else it will be garbage and that is not fun.

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:38 pm
by Zha Hong Lang
superfido2 wrote:Well, this guide is about making levels just like Nintendo™ when we should be creating levels in new and fresh ways. Wasn't the purpose of SMBX to play and make levels in our own creative way? If we follow the Nintendo formula, levels wouldn't be distinct. Not to mention, we wouldn't have fun making them. Since there are so many guides on how to make a "good" level, it feels like as though us newbies have to make it this way, or else it will be garbage and that is not fun.
I think that you're vastly misunderstanding the purpose of this topic. This topic was not intended to show you how to make a level like nintendo, it wasn't even a topic for making levels in a set style at all (save for 4step design, which is loose guidelines at best). Just because Nintendo was the main focus for many points mentioned (not surprising, because that's the origin of mario) doesn't mean that you'll necessarily make levels exactly in Nintendo's style.

This topic was actually intended so that you'd be able to fun making your levels. I can remember many times in the past when I wanted to make a level, but I felt like I had no idea what I was doing. I really could've used a topic like this, so that I'd have a better direction of what to do and what not to do. There were many times that I made a level that started out as a ton of fun, but then became a drag later on and I couldn't figure out why. It was a struggle to finish levels, and even when I did finish something I felt terrible because people would criticise my level for focusing on one thing too much - like graphics, challenge, unique level layout, or hidden secrets - when I really should've been paying attention to something else. Using knowledge that's in this topic and from other places, I've had a lot more fun building levels because I have a much clearer direction of what to do with them. I've also got much better feedback because I know much more about how to make something fun in the first place, and not get carried away too much on something to the point it hurts level quality.

E: also, I found this important passage in the top of the OP:
Note that the things discussed in the following aren’t strict formulas. This is simply a compilation of methods Nintendo use to make their levels. Feel free to deviate from them and experiment with concepts and see if you can come up with your own ideas to make your levels fun!

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:44 am
by Magician
superfido2 wrote:Well, this guide is about making levels just like Nintendo™ when we should be creating levels in new and fresh ways. Wasn't the purpose of SMBX to play and make levels in our own creative way? If we follow the Nintendo formula, levels wouldn't be distinct. Not to mention, we wouldn't have fun making them. Since there are so many guides on how to make a "good" level, it feels like as though us newbies have to make it this way, or else it will be garbage and that is not fun.
I mean... if you want to have fun making levels, there's now Super Mario Maker. I'm only asking the following because you say you're new: have you tried making anything in SMBX's legacy editor? I would NOT call that fun.

If you want to make levels in new and fresh ways, does it not help you to understand what came before, as well as the most common amateur designs?
Me personally, I'd like to at least know a bit about the rulebook before I decide to rip out the pages. It doesn't mean that what you make is garbage, or objectively blah blah blah. It's all opinion and you're entitled to yours. However, when you design a game or a level, you're going to want to have some kind of holistic vision for what it will become. These guides can provide a good starter approach to having an actual plan, but if you already have one, goferit.

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:49 am
by xDestroy
I think this will be very useful for any newcomers and even people that have played the game for years (vetrians). This is a great (in depth) guide that i know for a fact I will be reading every day. also #STICKYTHIS

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:54 am
by Ruan555
xDestroy wrote:#STICKYTHIS
This is already stickied. Remember, when a topic have the shell icon it means it's a stickied topic.

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:56 am
by xDestroy
Ruan555 wrote:
xDestroy wrote:#STICKYTHIS
This is already stickied. Remember, when a topic have the shell icon it means it's a stickied topic.
where?

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:04 am
by Ruan555
xDestroy wrote:
Ruan555 wrote:
xDestroy wrote:#STICKYTHIS
This is already stickied. Remember, when a topic have the shell icon it means it's a stickied topic.
where?
Return to the general page, you can see the shell icon in the left of the topic's name.

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:11 pm
by Super Luigi!
Thank you very much for such a detailed post, Aristocrat. I too have read Patrick Holleman's article, and I really like how he explains level design as well. As I move into the future, I will certainly keep your advice in mind, while mixing in my own ideas.

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:20 pm
by AndrewPixel
Oh, boy, that was really helpful. Thank you! :)

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:39 am
by Snessy the duck

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:24 am
by Enjl
Fantastic introduction and stepping stone to learning more. Also adorable and engaging.

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:14 pm
by Snessy the duck
Enjl wrote:
Fantastic introduction and stepping stone to learning more. Also adorable and engaging.
My words right there!

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:39 am
by MegaDood
This was really helpful, especially with how to come up with ideas, I'll definitely be referring to this every now and again. :D

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:08 pm
by CappytainSwag
Very useful ^-^
You explain very well to novices on Mario level designing.

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:50 pm
by LGLMAKING
This most certainly is a helpful guide. I may be a newbie on the forums, but not in platforming level editors.

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:16 pm
by MayroSpaghetti
Working on my new super mario bros wii lvl 1 projet...
:)
Image

Re: The Big Compilation of Level Design

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:28 pm
by PixelPest
MayroSpaghetti wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:16 pm
Working on my new super mario bros wii lvl 1 projet...
:)
Image
Please stay on topic. This would be better suited for the Screenshot thread in General