(SVLC 2016 1st Place, Easy/Medium) Woodfall Breeze (Now with low detail)

[Alagirez]

^ i already checked your level and it contains lenny lmao
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I'm gonna check them out.

[Enjl]

The reason I make this level generic because Vanilla limitation, so I can't make an interesting gimmick :/
Also this level supposed to be easy so there are not too much obstacles in this level.

1) Read Darkonius's post. If you don't know how to make an interesting level in Vanilla, chances are your Lua levels won't be all that interesting either. Do some concept brainstorming. Think of some weird scenarios and bounce between ideas. Write them down and develop them, go crazy! Give your levels some personality rather than have all of them play the same way. I sometimes get the most stupid ideas while designing a level. What do I do? Impliment them! They make the level more interesting.
If you want to see an example of one of my levels which I had no interesting twist for, look at Rinkas;Heaven. The only thing I had planned from the start were the distinction between first and second half. Everything else is thanks to some brainstorming I did when I ran low on ideas.

2) Repeating an obstacle is not something you have to do to make a level easy. You can still have a variety of obstacles that aren't too demanding for the player. Try to expand your horizon and get out of your comfort zone!

[ssumday]

Actually, a lot of gimmicks don't means a good and funny level. You can try to make something like a one gimmick per section and you will realize that the completed level isn't so good maybe. Levels can be funny without inovatings gimmicks, but using basic tools with diferents ways.
Your level can be more funny, sure, but I can't see a lot of negative points like others users. I understand when some users don't like the quantity of BGOs, but this have to be considered only as a opinion, and not a rule.

[Enjl]

I never implied one had to put a ton of "gimmicks" in their level. What matters is that the core idea for the level synergyzes with the level's theme and is executed well enough to give it a personality. You want your levels to stand out and be remarkable for what they are, regardless of what comes as the aftermath (drama, fame, etc). I don't know what you're classifying as an "innovating idea" in this scenario. If you mean something never seen before, then yes. I agree. If you mean anything standard which supports a level at it's core idea, no matter how often other levels used it, then no. This level for example would have greatly benefitted from doing more with the ideas it had. The moving layers felt underutilized and the portals one-dimensional. I gave some ideas on how to expand upon them without adding anything new to the mix above.
As it stands, even if you don't look at the aesthetic, this level is just plain boring and repetitive. There's nothing that really gets the player invested in it (apart from the spider warp maybe, but that's getting old rather quick because nothing's done with it) for the 4 minutes it lasts. The level has a lot of potential to be more without even adding anything new to the mix. Something I'd have loved to see would be moving portals which use the fact warps move, too, to their advantage.

Of course, tossing gimmick after gimmick at the player doesn't achieve much. There are multiple layers to each gimmick at your disposal and you are able to link each of these layers to a LOT of other gimmicks. You can get tons of combinations and interesting twists from just using two or three different gimmicks. And if people pull THAT off well enough, they will have created a fun, interesting, and (first and foremost) harmonic level along the way.

[zlaker]

Levels can be funny without inovatings gimmicks, but using basic tools with diferents ways.

Expect that's not how it works. You can't expect a level to maintain fun when it doesn't have a single gimmick to offer. And using "basic tools in a different ways" is a gimmick. And by gimmick I mean stuff like Dragon Coins, moving objects and heck even the spider portal in this level.

Actually, a lot of gimmicks don't means a good and funny level. You can try to make something like a one gimmick per section and you will realize that the completed level isn't so good maybe.

My CC11 and CC12 levels used one gimmick per section and majority of the audience for those levels thought both of those levels were able maintain the fun.

[Darkonius Mavakar]

In my opinion as long as The level Is intresting AND fun to play regardless if it has gimmicks or not, it's a good level in my book.

And man if you don't see those kind of levels.
Like, at all.
(I know this Is a stupid "philosophy" and if someone disagrees with my mentality, I'll Be open for changes!)

[TLtimelord]

In my opinion as long as The level Is intresting AND fun to play regardless if it has gimmicks or not, it's a good level in my book.

And man if you don't see those kind of levels.
Like, at all.
(I know this Is a stupid "philosophy" and if someone disagrees with my mentality, I'll Be open for changes!)

Agreed. It frustrates me when people think that levels absolutely have to have new gimmicks in order for the level to be fun. You can still make a level interesting with just moving layers!

[ssumday]

I never implied one had to put a ton of "gimmicks" in their level. What matters is that the core idea for the level synergyzes with the level's theme and is executed well enough to give it a personality. You want your levels to stand out and be remarkable for what they are, regardless of what comes as the aftermath (drama, fame, etc). I don't know what you're classifying as an "innovating idea" in this scenario. If you mean something never seen before, then yes. I agree. If you mean anything standard which supports a level at it's core idea, no matter how often other levels used it, then no. This level for example would have greatly benefitted from doing more with the ideas it had. The moving layers felt underutilized and the portals one-dimensional. I gave some ideas on how to expand upon them without adding anything new to the mix above.
As it stands, even if you don't look at the aesthetic, this level is just plain boring and repetitive. There's nothing that really gets the player invested in it (apart from the spider warp maybe, but that's getting old rather quick because nothing's done with it) for the 4 minutes it lasts. The level has a lot of potential to be more without even adding anything new to the mix. Something I'd have loved to see would be moving portals which use the fact warps move, too, to their advantage.

Of course, tossing gimmick after gimmick at the player doesn't achieve much. There are multiple layers to each gimmick at your disposal and you are able to link each of these layers to a LOT of other gimmicks. You can get tons of combinations and interesting twists from just using two or three different gimmicks. And if people pull THAT off well enough, they will have created a fun, interesting, and (first and foremost) harmonic level along the way.

No problem. Actually, the only "innovating idea" that I classify in this level is the spider portal. I know, it isn't a thing that add much fun in the level but still well done. This level isn't sooo good in my opinion and I also think this have so much to improve. I just think exaggerated the criticism on this level, since I have seen various others with the same characteristics and not much criticism (including contest winners worse than this).

Levels can be funny without inovatings gimmicks, but using basic tools with diferents ways.

Expect that's not how it works. You can't expect a level to maintain fun when it doesn't have a single gimmick to offer. And using "basic tools in a different ways" is a gimmick. And by gimmick I mean stuff like Dragon Coins, moving objects and heck even the spider portal in this level.

I think I used a wrong word to describe it. When I say "gimmick" I am trying to say something innovating and never saw before. I will use a different expression in the next time.

Actually, a lot of gimmicks don't means a good and funny level. You can try to make something like a one gimmick per section and you will realize that the completed level isn't so good maybe.

My CC11 and CC12 levels used one gimmick per section and majority of the audience for those levels thought both of those levels were able maintain the fun.

This is totally personal. I think your CC11 level very good, though the 3 or 4 last sections can be a little better. About your CC12 level I don't liked so much, because it begins with known gimmicks and the false grounds and switching fences aren't so good in my opinion. When I said about "one gimmick per section" I didn't say that it will always be bad., once I said "maybe".

[zlaker]

I think I used a wrong word to describe it. When I say "gimmick" I am trying to say something innovating and never saw before. I will use a different expression in the next time.

I still don't see how it's not a gimmick when it's a basic tool used in a different way as you said.

This is totally personal. I think your CC11 level very good, though the 3 or 4 last sections can be a little better. About your CC12 level I don't liked so much, because it begins with known gimmicks and the false grounds and switching fences aren't so good in my opinion. When I said about "one gimmick per section" I didn't say that it will always be bad., once I said "maybe".

How is what I said personal, when a lot of people ACTUALLY DID like the level?

[ssumday]

I think I used a wrong word to describe it. When I say "gimmick" I am trying to say something innovating and never saw before. I will use a different expression in the next time.

I still don't see how it's not a gimmick when it's a basic tool used in a different way as you said.

I have explained it.

This is totally personal. I think your CC11 level very good, though the 3 or 4 last sections can be a little better. About your CC12 level I don't liked so much, because it begins with known gimmicks and the false grounds and switching fences aren't so good in my opinion. When I said about "one gimmick per section" I didn't say that it will always be bad., once I said "maybe".

How is what I said personal, when a lot of people ACTUALLY DID like the level?

I didn't understand exactly what you mean, but I just wanted to say that each one has their own opinion about this level, since not everyone thinks this level is good (although the vast majority thinks it's good).

[zlaker]

I have explained it.

Except you didn't. You do realize that a "tool that is used in a different way" is a gimmick, right? Dragon Coins are gimmick since they're offering a sense exploration in the level to find them. Even moving layers are gimmicks. No one has ever said that a level needs an original gimmick to be good.

I didn't understand exactly what you mean, but I just wanted to say that each one has their own opinion about this level, since not everyone thinks this level is good (although the vast majority thinks it's good).

No it's not. The fact that a lot of people actually liked those levels despite using one gimmick per section is not an opinion. It's proof that shows you that levels can be good despite doing that.

[Alagirez]

Wow, this thread still get an activity while i'm gone XD
I appreciate these comments tho.

[ssumday]

I have explained it.

Except you didn't. You do realize that a "tool that is used in a different way" is a gimmick, right? Dragon Coins are gimmick since they're offering a sense exploration in the level to find them. Even moving layers are gimmicks. No one has ever said that a level needs an original gimmick to be good.

I didn't understand exactly what you mean, but I just wanted to say that each one has their own opinion about this level, since not everyone thinks this level is good (although the vast majority thinks it's good).

No it's not. The fact that a lot of people actually liked those levels despite using one gimmick per section is not an opinion. It's proof that shows you that levels can be good despite doing that.

What you said makes no sense, but have you noticed that this discussion is useless? I just said the level maybe be bad with many gimmicks, and the discussion has taken a completely different course. Better stop here.

[Shadow Yoshi]

(edit: this post was made before I read the second page of this thread, so this really is just in response to the first page but the point still stands)

General warning to everyone: I don't want to see any more posts insinuating in a negative way that Camacho shouldn't have won the contest. If you disagree with any or all aspects of the reviews he received, that's fine and you're welcome to comment on that in this thread or the SVLC thread, but the tone here so far contains unnecessary distaste toward Camacho for winning a contest on an internet forum. Please chill out.

[Shinbison-Kof]

Congratulations Camacho!!! I like this level, it have a simple concept, but very well made. The level design is pretty good, isn't long and have a good difficulty. The gimmicks are simple, but are a nice addition in this level. The details are very nice for me! Good job!

[Alagirez]

Congratulations Camacho!!! I like this level, it have a simple concept, but very well made. The level design is pretty good, isn't long and have a good difficulty. The gimmicks are simple, but are a nice addition in this level. The details are very nice for me! Good job!

Woo thank you for the nice comment ^w^

[Black Mamba]

Camacho

Your level that won was stupidly similar to my level that won. We both spammed the fuck out of wood blocks, we both used methods of progression using switches, and we both had a similar style in level structure. The only real differences where that your level had clouds and went up, and my level had lava and went down. I'm not saying you shouldn't have won, I'm just baffled on how similar our levels actually are.